Pyromancer Update

[Nnnxia]

no love for pyrochon?

[V1rul3n7]

Hey all,
[*]Flicker (1 Point) - Removes all crowd control effects. Teleports forward 15m. Instant. 20s cooldown.
[/LIST]

So let me get this right, besides numerous 30m charge abilities in the game (and 20m pulls) you're still leaving flicker as a 15m teleport?

Even with flicker > Heatwave > flicker thats not enough distance to cover a leaping plunge, definitely not a rift summon specced tempest and only just SO.

I mean fair play that you're finally going over mage properly but you could check out some of the "absolute basics" such as the example i've illustrated.

Especially since you're basically nerfing ride the wind on uptime duration.

[vexare]

Archon hybrids were made because deep archon sucks, and kervik has already stated he plans on making changes to it. Give it some time, he's making his way through the various broken mage souls. Even the current pyro changes indirectly make deep archon stronger because if the majority of mages switch back to pyro for pure ST fights and it's 2second cast time fireballs, then it starts to give a use for burning purpose again.

[AlwaysHealNeverDie]

So let me get this right, besides numerous 30m charge abilities in the game (and 20m pulls) you're still leaving flicker as a 15m teleport?

Even with flicker > Heatwave > flicker thats not enough distance to cover a leaping plunge, definitely not a rift summon specced tempest and only just SO.

I mean fair play that you're finally going over mage properly but you could check out some of the "absolute basics" such as the example i've illustrated.

Especially since you're basically nerfing ride the wind on uptime duration.

It have a break free after all

[AlwaysHealNeverDie]

Edit timer

Not to get too off topic..

Looking at dummy dps without movement for a turret based spec is a bit ridiculous. It is harder to play imo to maintain good dps as needing to move is often a large hit to overall dps. It kind of is a silly concept with the amount of gap closers and range abilities there is for melee to use said paradigm.

Irrevelant. Look at it from this point of view: You spot a target in the max range hiting something or running, before he get in range and use his cds he will be dead as pyro still got OP root, ranged stuns, etc.

This would only make sense if Pyro had 0 CC.

no love for pyrochon?

Pyrochon needs to die as it cannot be replaced, simply too much dps compared to other supports.

[V1rul3n7]

I read this thread last night while dungeoning, and sat on it all night at work, and I have only one question.

What, exactly, about this revamp makes it better, more interesting, and more worthwhile to play as it currently exists? Because as a main-mage, who has played Pyromancer in various forms since the day I created my first toon, I cannot see ANY improvement over the current set up unless damage is increased by some 15-20%.

Lower burst, lower mobility, and yeah not timing Aegis fireballs is nice but I'd rather time fireballs than end up with a crap spec that I can't use on raid fights where I have to spend ANY time moving. Granted I warlock a lot in raids anyway, but on fights that are purely ST I'll Pyro instead because I know it best and can get slightly better pure ST dps out of it.

So I guess I just want to hear from Kervik why the new changes are going to make life as a pyro -- for PVP *and* PVE -- better than they currently are.

This is basically my opinion when it comes to the stormcaller revamp.

That isn't to say that they don't need work but these are complete overhauls rather than subtle effective tweaks, which ultimately will probably cause more problems than they solve.

I do like the removal of combust stacks and electrified though, those are some positive changes but both stormcaller and pyro need to perform in a variety of situations, moving, stationary, escape, engagement, control.

[V1rul3n7]

I'm just happy my entire PvE arsenal is changing. Playing Warlock all the time was getting old.

I was kinda hoping Kervik would fix the souls that need it most first.

Like elementalist..

Which still IS a turret spec, and STILL underperforms.

Every year its the same thing..

1.8 pyro changes.. big changes to pyro guys
2.1 pyro changes.. ok those previous changes didnt work
2.4 pyro changes.. pyro got a little out of hand so we had to wreck mage crit rate to fix it.
2.7 pyro changes.. ok i think we'll get it right this time.

[vexare]

Irrevelant. Look at it from this point of view: You spot a target in the max range hiting something or running, before he get in range and use his cds he will be dead as pyro still got OP root, ranged stuns, etc.

On the double, blazing the path, slip away, cleanse soul, into the breach, thread the trees, ride the lightning, dark passage, any healer cleanse ect will negate the 8s root, and I'm sure I'm missing some but these are off the top of my head. Granted some of the charges have a 20m range, but even if you can't reach the person who rooted you, it's unlikely you will be in a situation where you can't simply target someone else and charge them instead. And of course when all else fails breakfree solves everything. It's not exactly like there aren't options out there to deal with problems.

I was kinda hoping Kervik would fix the souls that need it most first.

Like elementalist..

Which still IS a turret spec, and STILL underperforms.

Neither of the 3 souls you mentioned currently see any use in any raid fights, so in that regards they all under perform equally. Give the man some time and I'm sure he will get to elementalist too. Just be happy that for a change we are seeing some serious effort being put into fixing the mage calling as a whole.

[evantide]

Ya know, it's kind of telling how bad of a spot mage is in when, to fix them, 5/10 souls are going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up.

And 2 of them are only discounted because Warlock recently got boosted while Arbiter was recently released.

[Division]

Look at it from this point of view: You spot a target in the max range hiting something or running, before he get in range and use his cds he will be dead as pyro still got OP root, ranged stuns, etc.

This would only make sense if Pyro had 0 CC.

I disagree, you need to take a look at the amount of functional dps a spec or soul has in regards to the different situations. You need to do this with respects to pve and pvp as well which makes it cumbersome

Ideally you need to weigh in the CC, or hybrid healing abilities potential it has. The shared DR of a lot of the abilities and the amount of cc breaks honestly reduce the validity of CC as a pyro is not going to kite anyone around the block due. It is a far cry from that of WOW mages where you can keep your melee opponents at bay if you have a decent understanding of your class, and frost wow mages have a decent amount of dps.

I am one of the highest ranked Death Knights right now. I know what it feels like to be perma slowed.

Honestly, I can take my bolstered gear warrior and rogue and run over a r90 mage without issue sadly. I don't have issue staying on them, generally have more hp even with bolstered gear. It is a bit silly.

This games biggest downfall is the lack of balancing of classes for both aspects of the game. I have Wildstar, it is a lot better than that. And equally as entertaining as WOW in different respects. It just has this one big downfall that causes a lot of frustration.

[MoMo1]

Sorry but if you remove the mobility in Pyro you are dead meat in PVP. We are not talking bunny hopping which is stupid. We are talking about moving In directions and firing on the go. We do not have the health or armour so mobility and quick thinking was the way to go. Stand still channeling and we fail. Great for PVE but awful in PVP. Flicker takes a big nerf and backdraft disappears. We get stranded with no means of escape.

Do not make pyro a turret spec. Look at the overall specs on other callings before you kill pyro and realise you are killing a fun spec and it's survivability in PVP. If you take the fun out people will drop Mage in favour of other callings. I have all 4 callings level 60s and raid geared. Inquisitors Nysyrs Rebuke is a no no in PVP and now you are doing this to Pyro. This is a backward step IMHO.

[Pett]

Sorry but if you remove the mobility in Pyro you are dead meat in PVP. We are not talking bunny hopping which is stupid. We are talking about moving In directions and firing on the go. We do not have the health or armour so mobility and quick thinking was the way to go. Stand still channeling and we fail. Great for PVE but awful in PVP. Flicker takes a big nerf and backdraft disappears. We get stranded with no means of escape.

Do not make pyro a turret spec. Look at the overall specs on other callings before you kill pyro and realise you are killing a fun spec and it's survivability in PVP. If you take the fun out people will drop Mage in favour of other callings. I have all 4 callings level 60s and raid geared. Inquisitors Nysyrs Rebuke is a no no in PVP and now you are doing this to Pyro. This is a backward step IMHO.

I really want to see backdraft brought back. I found it extremely useful in pvp.

I still think a toggle for reduced damage insta-fireballs would be a pretty good way to get around the mobility problem.

[Iphigeneia]

Archon hybrids were made because deep archon sucks, and kervik has already stated he plans on making changes to it. Give it some time, he's making his way through the various broken mage souls. Even the current pyro changes indirectly make deep archon stronger because if the majority of mages switch back to pyro for pure ST fights and it's 2second cast time fireballs, then it starts to give a use for burning purpose again.

Considering how differently pyrochon is going to look with these changes to pyro -- though I expect more adjustments to come on them once they are tested on PTS -- Archon is definitely going to need at least as much of a revamp. And not just because Archon's 61-point ability is the most ridiculous thing in any class's soul tree. In fact I seem to remember Kervik saying "archon is next" in the Warlock changes thread and yet we're seeing SC and Pyro changes before...

Here's a thought for Flicker -- make it a defensive ability along with the teleport forward. Grants 10% damage reduction or shield, or return 5% health, or even increases dodge by 50% for 10s or whatever. Would help make up for the pointless range and the cooldown it has. Or buff the range/shield/healing and increase the cooldown. As it is it's worthless.

[lgw]

Archon hybrids were made because deep archon sucks, and kervik has already stated he plans on making changes to it.

FYI:
* 48 BM hybrid is ahead of Pyrochon.
* Full BM and full Oracle are very close with it.

no love for pyrochon?

I really want to see backdraft brought back. I found it extremely useful in pvp.

Yea, sad days.

[AlwaysHealNeverDie]

deep archon sucks because some smart *** decided to place flaring power in the middle of the soul tree instead of in the end. Do you think ppl would use 61 bard if it had orchestra in the middle of the tree instead of Motif of Encouragement?

Normalize archon soul tree and wait for all the changes to SC , Pyro etc. Then you we can see how much it will affect archon popularity. As it is archon or it's hybrid are a must have in any serious raid.