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Thread: Pyromancer's Aegis

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    "I don't like it" is also a valid complaint when speaking of a spec's playstyle. Though additional information is important.
    I didn't say it wasn't a valid complaint, just I hate people using the term clunky.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalthium View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't a valid complaint, just I hate people using the term clunky.
    Moving on from my choice of words, what do you think about the armor? Do you think it's fine the way it is or do you think it should be changed?

  3. #18
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    Though I can pull it off, I actually dont like it.

    I actually prefered pyro to be the primary 2-go-2 class for when you need big nuke CDs at specific times such as vulnerable burn phases on proteus, intermittent optimal burn phases on Kaliban, or Goloch, or saving for super fast burn on the add with kyzan, shield burns on progenetor...pretty much any place that requires intermittent but critical burn phases. Pyro could be made more available and effective at that so others can concentrate more on their tasks.

    Aka I wanted its specific niche to be explicity for fights where sustained DPS was difficult, but having access to a wave of burst CDs was necessary.

    Currently, Aegis causes max DPS over duration of a fight to use your CDs as fillers. CDs should never be fillers to maximize DPS WHEN you need to unleash the heat. I honestly believe this is not the intended method of play for pyromancer but Aegis naturally lead to it.

    Honestly I'd rather get rid of the double fireball proc all together and allow Aegis to work similar to the cleric healing buffs that either increase spell crit, spell power, etc on the next cast WHICH the cooldown can be reduced by their basic spam (such as each healing invocation reducing the CD for sentinals).

    In this way I'd like fireball to reduce the CD of heatwave by say 1 or 2 seconds everytime you cast fireball. That way you can reset your CD flurry sooner so you can have burst when you need burst, rather than as a filler.

    Right now we pretty much just use either harb or warlock for all our DPS. Warlock for sustained, and the best we can do is save empowered darkness and a crit vials for those moments or use our 61 for harb burns. I really think pyro could be revamped to give it an amazing niche for critical intermittent burns on fights that really rely on them.

    Anyway, whatever changes or happens, I just hope that pyro goes back to being reliably bursty rather than just using intended bursts simply as filler fodder.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxed View Post
    Moving on from my choice of words, what do you think about the armor? Do you think it's fine the way it is or do you think it should be changed?
    I would rather it be more consistent (after a number of casts instead of % chance), but it doesn't particularly bother me. I haven't raided on my mage in a long time though.

  5. #20
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
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    I don't like it and it's the entire reason I don't like pyromancer. I just hate ICDs.

  6. #21
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    I think people use the term clunky partly out of habit when it comes to pyromancer and partly because it is still a little clunky

    it goes 1...2 .. fireball, except when it actually goes 1..2.. 3 fireball. depending on whether those fireballs were both instant or 1 instant and 1 cast or 2 cast or you just didn't have another filler and used fireball as filler

    it's clunky because you need to use withering flames as a filler but not channel it for the full duration

    it's clunky because you need to use flame volley and channel it for the full duration despite this eating into your aegis proc

    It's clunky because the gameplay of the soul changes so much at level 60

    removing the proc doesn't have to mean dumbing the spec down to fireball spam, there is room to put something more interesting in but is it really so bad if it is use fireball use your hard hitters and cooldowns wisely and manage your charge well

    clunk
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntled View Post
    I think people use the term clunky partly out of habit when it comes to pyromancer and partly because it is still a little clunky

    it goes 1...2 .. fireball, except when it actually goes 1..2.. 3 fireball. depending on whether those fireballs were both instant or 1 instant and 1 cast or 2 cast or you just didn't have another filler and used fireball as filler

    it's clunky because you need to use withering flames as a filler but not channel it for the full duration

    it's clunky because you need to use flame volley and channel it for the full duration despite this eating into your aegis proc

    It's clunky because the gameplay of the soul changes so much at level 60

    removing the proc doesn't have to mean dumbing the spec down to fireball spam, there is room to put something more interesting in but is it really so bad if it is use fireball use your hard hitters and cooldowns wisely and manage your charge well

    clunk
    Well said.

  8. #23
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    I still have a hate-love relationship with pyro. There is a rhythm to it but its soo easy to **** the whole thing up.
    Changing Pyromancers Aegis would inevitably change the playstyle but im not sure there is any other way to fix the soul. Maybe give us burning fury back in its old form way upward in the tree? (40+ points)
    And rework it someway you dont need 3 fillers before extinguish/1 after. Some streamlining would be good. Maybe even give us an extra filler.
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  9. #24
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    I wouldn't say Pyro is "clunky". Clunky are those specs where the GCDs flop back and forth. Warlock is clunky. Harb is a little clunky (WHY ARE BLAZING LIGHT AND BLADE RUSH 1.5S GCD?).

    Pyro is disjointed. There is no apparent flow or reason to the rotation and the gameplay. For the most part it's just "alternate your skills between Fireballs as they come off CD". None of the skills or buffs really interact with each other except Combust, which is basically fire-and-forget with Prime when you switch to a target. When you look at a soul like Paragon, or Arbiter, you can understand just from the tooltips that, okay, I use x skill first, follow up with y, which leads into z, etc. With Pyro it's just THIS DOES DAMAGE LOL p.s. double fireballs.

    In context this problem makes sense, because almost all of Pyro's skills are the way they are due to mass forum QQ about all the wrong things.

    I would love to see the double-Fireball thing removed, Fireball damage restored to its previous awesomeness, and Burning Fury added to Pyro Aegis. Dreams, dreams.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 03-19-2014 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    I wouldn't say Pyro is "clunky". Clunky are those specs where the GCDs flop back and forth. Warlock is clunky. Harb is a little clunky (WHY ARE BLAZING LIGHT AND BLADE RUSH 1.5S GCD?).

    Pyro is disjointed. There is no apparent flow or reason to the rotation and the gameplay. For the most part it's just "alternate your skills between Fireballs as they come off CD". None of the skills or buffs really interact with each other except Combust, which is basically fire-and-forget with Prime when you switch to a target. When you look at a soul like Paragon, or Arbiter, you can understand just from the tooltips that, okay, I use x skill first, follow up with y, which leads into z, etc. With Pyro it's just THIS DOES DAMAGE LOL p.s. double fireballs.

    In context this problem makes sense, because almost all of Pyro's skills are the way they are due to mass forum QQ about all the wrong things.

    I would love to see the double-Fireball thing removed, Fireball damage restored to its previous awesomeness, and Burning Fury added to Pyro Aegis. Dreams, dreams.
    I would like specs the rewarded the player depending on how difficult it is to min max it. Or in general just challenging to play. I guess we can all dream?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynvyctus View Post
    I would like specs the rewarded the player depending on how difficult it is to min max it. Or in general just challenging to play. I guess we can all dream?
    YESYESYES. Every single time I see the suggestion of aegis fireball being removed I shed a tear. Not every spec needs to be easy like harb guys. Minmaxing should be rewarded, not taken out of the spec entirely.

  12. #27
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    i used to hate aegis, i dont mind it as much anymore.

    But, I think if it also combined the two lower armors(20% cinder, 5% fire damage) it would:
    1. Solve the filler issue for the most part
    2. add more dps so its actually meaningfully ahead of warlock(which has both an easier rotation, and more aoe, including cleaves)

    I think this is the only "growing" buff(RB blade enchants, munitions, armors, etc) that is not strictly a "previous buff plus new stuff", which kinda sucks. Im not sure why pyro is mostly alone in having 3 completely seperate tree defining buffs.

  13. #28
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    change it to reduce fireball cast time by 50%, and make it reduce cinder cast time as well to 2s; or make fireball cast instantly but with reduced damage like in Inq BoJ and make cider cast time to 1s as well as reduce its damage.

    this armor buff is really horrible and look at inq buff...why not follow the same thing to it?

    By far cleric is the most easy mode in this game and any other class is just plain frustrating to play with all this limitations.

  14. #29
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    #show Flame Bolt
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Inferno
    cast Countdown
    cast Extinguish
    cast Burning Shield
    cast Flame Volley
    cast Fusillade
    cast Flame Bolt
    cast Cinder Burst
    cast Fireball
    cast Flicker
    cast Dark touch
    cast Draining Bolt
    cast break free
    cast Burn
    cast Burning Bonds
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrestorme
    cinderburst is a 20% proc or ur doin it wrong

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesemonster View Post
    change it to reduce fireball cast time by 50%, and make it reduce cinder cast time as well to 2s; or make fireball cast instantly but with reduced damage like in Inq BoJ and make cider cast time to 1s as well as reduce its damage.

    this armor buff is really horrible and look at inq buff...why not follow the same thing to it?

    By far cleric is the most easy mode in this game and any other class is just plain frustrating to play with all this limitations.
    Maybe because people want to actually play a difficult spec for once? Yes, pyro is extremely behind in terms of the (any situation) damage scale, but the playstyle itself is perfectly fine. Buffing it straight up through Glyphs is the best option, why would you dumb it down?

    Wanna play a bursty ranged spec? Elementalist.

    Wanna play a Dotty, dual cleave spec? Warlock

    Wanna play a pure single target power house? (It should be) Pyro.
    Last edited by CowGoesMoo; 03-19-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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    RIP Pyromancer's Aegis
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    Sharax will definitely be bug free .

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