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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: New Soul Feedback - Arbiter

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    So your saying radiant spores is useless or your just down playing what you know to be true?
    Okay let me give it to you as an analogy.
    Saying you would use Radiant spores over 10% bonus HP, is similar to saying that speccing evade is better than speccing for HP.

    Radiant spores is a 16% chance to bestow up to 5% of your maximum health.
    Assuming that you are a 90k Mage tank, you bestow a 4.5k heal each time it procs.
    Let us also assume that everytime it procs, it provides the full benefit, no overhealng.
    On average, it would be around 720 hps or so.

    Not really great.
    Furthermore, because it is a percent chance based heal, it will not always come in when you need it because there is a raid full of healers, or you are in a dungeon with a healer.
    So this will result in typically a large amount of overhealing so its effectiveness is significantly less than what you would hope for.

    10 Warlock or 5 SC, provides guaranteed eHP that does not have the possibility of being wasted.
    If you noticed, Moonfire's argument regarding speccing CHloro was for Natural Conversion which turns the next hostile spell into 200% of its damage.
    For Crucia who rips off about 18k a tick with her breath, that is a 36k heal. That's amazing since its about 1/3rd of a full t1 tank's HP.



    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Pick one either is fine with me. Why pyro?.... O i dunno. Fiery resolve, burning fury, flaring intellects, flicker, 10% more charge... -5% cast time.
    Chloromancer's are healing Mage's, they are not DPS Mages.
    Crit has a significantly lower weight than Sp for them because consistent healing is more important.

    So typically, you will find that they prefer using Necro, Harb, Warlock, Dom, Arb for their off souls because the the crit provided is inferior to the SP/Int/raw healing bonuses those respective souls

    For example, the only spell that has a true cast time anymore is that of Vile Spores. So the effectiveness of Fiery resolve is mitigated.

    Flaring intellect is provided by Bard/Archon; you should know this; and doesn't improve your overall healing as greatly as 5% SP from Necro nor using the LL trigger.

    So at most, the only reason you would go for Pyromancer is primarily for Flicker.
    For PvP purposes though, you are better off with Warlock for opportunity procs; which means better survivability through instant healing torrents/NH's.


    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    But your right thats completly worthless compared to 10% more int, an endurance buff (isnt pve dmg % based anyway lol.)
    If you have to ask a question about PvE, you shouldn't be commenting about it.
    Damage in PvE is not percentile based outside of a few cases, and those are generally directed at the tanks.
    Even then, you want a significant amount of endurance because if you have 1k HP and lose 90% of it, vs having 10k hp and losing 90% of it, the latter is more likely to survive than the former from the next incoming hit.

    10% more intelligence provdes more SP, provides some crit ; which makes burning fury an even weaker option.

    Flicker provides the ability to teleport through Hazards,

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    lets see what do you get in Arbiter.... A ward that needs your healing by 30% lololol, 3% dmg mitigation (woo hoo!). What else?
    5 points Arbiter.
    Damage mitigation of 3%
    7.5% endurance increase
    10% intelligence = 165 more SP/1% more crit in t2 tank gear.
    The ward reduces your healing so it would not be used.

    This is significantly better than going Pyro.


    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Nothing thats right. I feel sorry for your chloros if they are forced to spec into necro bc nobody else in your guild is a reliable purge. Are you done schooling me yet?
    Fresh Graves

    This is why Chloro's go Necro.
    Please read ALL the tooltips.
    Last edited by Katosu; 03-23-2014 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #212
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    The arcane ward can be toggled on and off if your getting beat on. So that isn't a big issue. Ok some suggestions

    Harb tree
    Eld armor add 10% chance to proc off elemental damage


    Arbiter tree
    Arbitier training: increases all damage 2% per point. I wanted to suggestion adding +1% healing per point as well but i think that would force people to get it then.

    maybe change Element tree:
    fuse biting cold with tempest
    so its 5% crit and 5% cp to damage and healing

    add a 5 pt intel talent where biting cold was.

    elemental link increases damage and healing 5%

    I think these are all fair, and would give alot of options to all playstyles
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  3. #213
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    So your spending 10 points in necro for 5% sp. I can see how that would be nice, just seems like a giant waste of points for 5% sp imo. Id rather go into dom for the range, int and then harb for 8-10% sp depending on if i want AP or not.

    Back on topic.

    Im sure the one person in your guilds progression raids who is assigned to mage tanking will love the soul as it stands. For 90% of the rest of the mages pvp and pve oriented there is not much if anything going on with arbiter to warrant its purchase.

    I had hoped with the introduction of the soul that mages would be able to easily hybrid into it for defensive talents. That clearly isn't going to work due to the way it is set up as well as poor synergy with other souls. I guess this is what happens when you have mostly top end raiding guilds alpha and beta testing these souls. Now here we are shortly before release and its unlikely any major changes can be done at this point.

    If trion wants to sell this soul they should quickly make some adjustments to make it more desirable to a broader player base. Surely someone somwhere at trion had to have thought "hey this is a tank soul, if we dont put enough goodies in it below 15 points, few are going to buy it."

    The best they can do at this point is
    1) flip flop tactical advantage and hardened soul. That alone will greatly increase purchase of Arbiter.
    2) remove the heal nerf from arcane ward. The dps nerf is enough. Its not like soothing rain is gonna become op with arcane ward on, also since outside bloom, flourish and natural healing chloros healing is derived from doing dps, so this is actually a double nerf to chloros sub speccing or chloro hybrids.

    Boom instant shopping frenzy on the rift store.

    Might also want to consider
    3) deadly shards: have it effect all slashing attacks. This will create better hybrids for harbinger.
    4) arbiter training this should somehow be changed to help hybrids with sc. Like a cast reduction similar to cold weather training or maybe a gcd reduction to air and water. Just enough to where you could instant cast forked lighting. Then things would be real interesting for arbiter.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    chloros healing is derived from doing dps, so this is actually a double nerf to chloros sub speccing or chloro hybrids.
    Chloro hasn't healed through dps for ages, it is based on the cast time of the spell. This is why players should only comment in threads dealing with their main class. Because often times people think they know what they are talking about, and end up complaining about nothing.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    2) remove the heal nerf from arcane ward. The dps nerf is enough. Its not like soothing rain is gonna become op with arcane ward on, also since outside bloom, flourish and natural healing chloros healing is derived from doing dps, so this is actually a double nerf to chloros sub speccing or chloro hybrids.
    Clerics get dmg/heal nerfs from Mien of Leadership just like Arcane Ward. So I doubt Trion will remove it from Arcane Ward... since we know that Clerics will QQ

    Also didn't chloro heals get changed to be based off cast time/veil rather than dmg?
    Last edited by Lethaemis; 03-23-2014 at 07:05 PM.
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  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethaemis View Post

    Also didn't chloro heals get changed to be based off cast time/veil rather than dmg?
    yes it did. before storm legion around 1.11 if I remember right. Chloro healing has not been based on dps for a long long time
    Quote Originally Posted by Frailaq View Post

    tl;dr - Trion should do this: Melee = Turret Ranged > Mobile Ranged

  7. #217
    Ascendant Landstalker's Avatar
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    Ok your right i fudged that one, but it still is a double nerf to chloros as it nerfs their dps and hps. If arcane ward is used for defensive purposes there is no point in chloro using it bc it will greatly nerf their heals and as well in pvp it will greatly limit the chance to dps down their opponent in hybrid builds. The dps need alone is sufficient.
    Last edited by Landstalker; 03-23-2014 at 07:15 PM.
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  8. #218
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    Those attempting to argue with Landslide should keep in mind that he is speaking from a PvP perspective, and his points I kinda agree with. There is no real reason a PvPer would buy the new soul.

    The disillusion of Arbiter I think comes from a simple question of comparison. We get a tank spec, which in a raid might be used a little, by few (most likely 1) player. All the other classes get a heal/support spec which can be used in raid by multiple players (not at the same time ofc... But they will have the option to go heals/support, unlike a mage tank who, I think you'd agree, would be that particular player who has been able to gear up with raid drops - not all mages will be in that position, just as your main tank will have a distinct gear advantage over a DPS with a tank offspec.

    Additionally, rogues/warriors/clerics will have spec that might have some uses in PVP - arbiter doesn't seem to have this capability.

    TL,DR: Rogues/Warriors/Clerics get lots of shiny new toys to play with; Mages get one very specific toy. Deal with it.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    2) remove the heal nerf from arcane ward. The dps nerf is enough. Its not like soothing rain is gonna become op with arcane ward on, also since outside bloom, flourish and natural healing chloros healing is derived from doing dps, so this is actually a double nerf to chloros sub speccing or chloro hybrids.
    Healing of chloro has nothing to do with its DPS, they are completely separate. Damage buffs don't affect chloro healing in any way. The healing nerf in arcane ward is pretty much required like it is in all the souls or else you would have unkillable hybrid tank/healers running alll over the place.

    Someone commenting on Chloros without even knowing the basic mechanics of chloros....

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Ok your right i fudged that one, but it still is a double nerf to chloros as it nerfs their dps and hps. If arcane ward is used for defensive purposes there is no point in chloro using it bc it will greatly nerf their heals and as well in pvp it will greatly limit the chance to dps down their opponent in hybrid builds. The dps need alone is sufficient.
    it nerfs the DPS and HPS of everything. And all the tanking stances function the same. They all reduce damage and healing by 30%.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    So your spending 10 points in necro for 5% sp. I can see how that would be nice, just seems like a giant waste of points for 5% sp imo. Id rather go into dom for the range, int and then harb for 8-10% sp depending on if i want AP or not.
    Your opinion is nice, but it is irrelevant.
    The 5% SP> 10% intelligence from Dom.

    Hence, Necro/Harb instead of Harb/dom
    Going into Arresting Presence is only necessary as the raid calls for it.
    In which case, 11 dom/4 harb.

    Otherwise, 5 harb, 10 Necro is better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Im sure the one person in your guilds progression raids who is assigned to mage tanking will love the soul as it stands. For 90% of the rest of the mages pvp and pve oriented there is not much if anything going on with arbiter to warrant its purchase.
    You are spinning your wheels.
    According to your statement right here, then Paladin, Void Knight, Reaver and Justicar need to be altered dramatically because only one person in the raid will be using it.
    Your argument is faulty, and I have countered you with this statement repeatedly and you have yet to address it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    I had hoped with the introduction of the soul that mages would be able to easily hybrid into it for defensive talents.
    What, you expected Mage's to magically have a hybrd with good DPS and good defensive capability?
    No one gets that besides Warriors currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    its unlikely any major changes can be done at this point.
    You're cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    If trion wants to sell this soul they should quickly make some adjustments to make it more desirable to a broader player base. Surely someone somwhere at trion had to have thought "hey this is a tank soul, if we dont put enough goodies in it below 15 points, few are going to buy it."
    Um...no...advertisement and selling is not based around nitty gritty details that will have little to no relevance.
    Especially given that the first 15 points nets you some good things.
    So...you're wrong objectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    2) remove the heal nerf from arcane ward.
    ...
    *facepalms*

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    The dps nerf is enough. Its not like soothing rain
    Mage's don't have soothing Rain.
    That is Warden.


    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    is gonna become op with arcane ward on, also since outside bloom, flourish and natural healing chloros healing is derived from doing dps,
    Dude...Chloromancers have not used DPS to heal since 1.11

    I wonder if you even play this game anymore
    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Boom instant shopping frenzy on the rift store.
    Not sure if serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Might also want to consider
    3) deadly shards: have it effect all slashing attacks. This will create better hybrids for harbinger.
    Look back at patch notes where it was nerfed and why.

    You should REALLY take the time to go on the PTS and play a Mage a bit.
    Looka t the past patch notes.
    There is a reason Deadly shards does not stack anymore.
    Last edited by Katosu; 03-23-2014 at 09:17 PM.

  12. #222
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    Yes i poorly represented my thought process in a hasty post. I was wrong. Chloro is unique in that most of its hps is derived by doing dps outside of a abilities, this is why chloros heals have always been lower to clerics bc theirs dps as well. Yes the hps is based off of cast time now. That doesnt change the niche of chloro. The point i failed miserably to make was that arcane ward at first glance looks great for chloro to survive burst. However bc it nerfs both dps and hps its worthless to any soul but Arbiter imo. For something so low in the tree you think it would hybrid better being a new soul. I am just trying to come up with ways to alter this soul so people will want to buy it. Does anyone else have better ideas? Or is the mage community happy to write it off as a nothing but a tank spec that 1/20 pvers will use and enjoy? For me personally id like for it to be a bit more useful to the rest of the mages not tanking progression raids.
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  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Yes i poorly represented my thought process in a hasty post. I was wrong. Chloro is unique in that most of its hps is derived by doing dps outside of a abilities, this is why chloros heals have always been lower to clerics bc theirs dps as well.
    Land are you drinking?
    You just repeated yourself.
    Let alone, Chloro DPS is higher than healing CLeric DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    That doesnt change the niche of chloro.
    It does actually. If it was still DPS based, then they would suffer due to Valor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    The point i failed miserably to make was that arcane ward at first glance looks great for chloro to survive burst. However bc it nerfs both dps and hps its worthless to any soul but Arbiter imo.
    That is because 30% damage mitigation is very powerful and would make Chloromancers too hardy. It is balanced that way just like Mein of Leadership and Riftstalker's defensive stance is balanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    I am just trying to come up with ways to alter this soul so people will want to buy it.
    This is not your motivation at all. -_-.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Does anyone else have better ideas? Or is the mage community happy to write it off as a nothing but a tank spec that 1/20 pvers will use and enjoy? For me personally id like for it to be a bit more useful to the rest of the mages not tanking progression raids.
    Go home you're drunk.

  14. #224
    Ascendant Landstalker's Avatar
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    Warrior has several tank souls, all offer great stuff and hybrid well within their calling. Reaver is no slouch either. Justicar also hybrids nicely. Again what is your point? Look at the soul builder. The talents especially lower in the trees are much better. Way better. They are easyily better to sub spec into.

    15 points in arb gives you nothing you want from a dps or hps perspective that you can not get in another soul with better advantages. What mage spec that will go 15 points into arbiter and be better for it. What about a spec that will go ten points and be better for it? Or 5 points?
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  15. #225
    Ascendant Landstalker's Avatar
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    Yea i want it altered so i will want to buy it too. Id like to see rift successful and see other people buy it as well. I dont currently think many will. I think most can agree on that.

    Arcane ward is not 30% dmg mitigation.
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