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Thread: Srsly...Why play mage? mages suck

  1. #241
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkimer View Post
    You just answered your own question.

    Ranged souls don't need to deal with cleaves, disconnects, erratic tanks, etc.
    Cleaves: True, but then ranged often deal with mechanics melee doesn't. Like orange bubbles on FT's Twins.
    Disconnects: Everytime a caster has to move is a disconnect. You don't see it this way because we still have "something to cast" but the reality is that something is as much of a loss as a Paragon stepping out and pressing shock pulse. Additionally, with Grasp the Horizon, Para has little room to speak anymore.
    Erratic Tanks: This may be the only fighting point melee actually have. But then again, you have no cast times, you can run with the tank just the same. If something is pulled out of range of a caster, us moving to keep up is just more "disconnect" time. Then there's things like tank positioning, where it can hinder radiate death or flame rupture/backdraft.

  2. #242
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis224 View Post
    Melee > Range :
    well, then why shouldnt be a turret styled range soul (that suffers from movement) not get a buff in dmg as long as it is in melee range ?
    wait.

    we have turret-style souls? this is news to me.

  3. #243
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    Cleaves: True, but then ranged often deal with mechanics melee doesn't. Like orange bubbles on FT's Twins.
    Disconnects: Everytime a caster has to move is a disconnect. You don't see it this way because we still have "something to cast" but the reality is that something is as much of a loss as a Paragon stepping out and pressing shock pulse. Additionally, with Grasp the Horizon, Para has little room to speak anymore.
    Erratic Tanks: This may be the only fighting point melee actually have. But then again, you have no cast times, you can run with the tank just the same. If something is pulled out of range of a caster, us moving to keep up is just more "disconnect" time. Then there's things like tank positioning, where it can hinder radiate death or flame rupture/backdraft.
    I actually don't disagree with any of this. I still think that it's more difficult to play melee in Rift than to play ranged. I'm not saying that it's like OMG so impossible, but it's more difficult

    aaaaand FWIW my two mains are a mage and a war. So I think:

    1) melee deserves a little DPS bump over ranged
    2) double-dipping mechanics should go away and
    3) mage is a little undertuned right now, for the relative complexity of the playstyle

    I've spent a lot of time on both sides, and I don't think that "zomg stoopid mages l2p" or "zomg nerf warriors pls" are good answers

  4. #244
    Shield of Telara
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    Why is it that double dipping dps still exists after this ridiculously long? When chloro was double dipping heals it lasted for what, a month or so? Why is it that at this stage in the game this is an issue?? A fair amount of balance would be introduced by simply removing this broken mechanic.

  5. #245
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicinia View Post
    Pyromancer, Warlock, Necromancer

    Stormcaller,Chloromancer,Elementalist

    Each is balanced ta have DPS along with a pet and abilities ta heal itself

    Warlock has Mortality and Necromancer has Soul Purge

    Chloromancer has various abilities ta heal with

    Use all 3 souls and not just focus on using a single one
    The problem with soul purge is in pvp it takes a double hit from valor.

    Allow me to clarify sort of what this means, as it's sort of a unique problem compared to say, chloro healing from damage.

    Chloromancer heals are not based on the numerical value of damage inflicted, it is a proc that is triggered based off of a fixed value, casting time, and the type of veil used. This is modified/affected once from valor by the heal % reduced.

    Soul purge however... originally healed us for 100% dmg done. The healing is based off numerical value of damage dealt. Currently, it now only does 45%, IF talented. This was originally necro's survival in pvp because our pet really can't protect us, as it can't kill players fast enough, lacks cc, and let's face it, you can't pet tank a player and pull their threat off.

    But onto the actual number. The heal is based on damage dealt. This gets hit FIRST from the already low % it heals (as it is not enough to allow you to "drain tank" a player, to survive a hit or burst.). It takes ANOTHER hit from valor. Granted vengeance boosts it, but the % dmg decrease is SO large that the dmg is about the same as a dot. Maybe a bit more. Now, this alone decreases the healing by a % equal to the dmg decrease from valor.

    But it gets worse. Because heals take a base hit in pvp, including direct heals, the healing provided by soul purge takes a SECOND hit from valor. Ironicaly essence link (who's heals are already ridiculously low) also suffers from this hit.

    So basically soul purge takes a hit to it's heals from talent, dmg-valor relationship, and heals-valor relationship. So in essence valor double hits it, thus completely destroying it's use in pvp. Ironically does not screw up using it to heal a pet, as it's based purely off a % of the pet's hp, not dmg dealt. The player healing is the ONLY part based on dmg dealt.

    An easy fix for this, is have the heal for the player be treated as a proc, like a chloro void life, or a simpler way, a % of the player's max health. The reason behind saying this needs to happen is, that it was the one move that gave the necro a chance to survive being jumped.

    This is of course not factoring in ice shield from ele (30 second cooldown, but also really only takes 1 maybe 2 hits and you can't recast it fast enough). And the solution is not 'go another class' or 'use dom'. using dom destroys pet dmg completely, which is the whole point of using a pet. and i won't even get started on how ridiculously easy pets are to kite without even using cc or self run buffs.

    This is not to say a necro is worthless in pvp. ON a TEAM played right it can be just as effective. But I do not believe it is being designed with the right mentality on how EFFECTIVE pet classes work. And no class should ever be pigeonholed into "leveling or soloing" only. Because you can level or solo on any spec, therefore if that's the mindset, you should just remove the class if not getting it right.

    Pardon the tl;dr, but i felt it best to get into the specifics.

    For those who have something constructive to add suggestion-wise, etc, floor's open. To those who merely wish to flame, argue, etc, i won't even reply to you. I know my class well enough to smell bs even if the rest of the community doesn't. I only say this because i know one, two or more folks are probably going to try and do it, as it's always inevitable.

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