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Thread: highest ranged dps build for mage and experts?

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    Rift Chaser Mykei's Avatar
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    Default highest ranged dps build for mage and experts?

    dont seem to see any posts about builds for mages that take into consideration all the changes over the past few months. the last build guild that was useful seems to be about 3-6 months back.

    i use pyro/warlock for dps, but find pyro/necro almost as good for experts. i heal when needed but cant seem to match rogues on dps yet.

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    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    valvalval.net
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    Rift Chaser Mykei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    valvalval.net
    he has some interesting info but tends to focus on harbinger which is melee. knowing this i think he is biased when doing his tests, but it maybe that Trion has forced us to buy the SL soul (i have it) and go melee to be able to keep up with the rogue.

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    Prophet of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    he has some interesting info but tends to focus on harbinger which is melee. knowing this i think he is biased when doing his tests, but it maybe that Trion has forced us to buy the SL soul (i have it) and go melee to be able to keep up with the rogue.
    What Valery focusses on is irrelevant, he just tests different specs. The result is indeed that harbinger does the highest DPS, which is also logical cause they're melee. It's a simple trade-off, lose your range and gain some dps. If you don't believe this, test it yourself on dummies.

    Also, "biased"? You mash a dummy and the outcome is a number from your DPS parser. There can't be anything "biased" about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    he has some interesting info but tends to focus on harbinger which is melee. knowing this i think he is biased when doing his tests, but it maybe that Trion has forced us to buy the SL soul (i have it) and go melee to be able to keep up with the rogue.
    Huh, of the 6 max level guides, there's only 1 harb and 1 sub harb. He has 3 ranged mage DPS guides. I don't see the bias. Furthermore, rogue ranged DPS was so behind that I doubt last few patches buffed them so much as to be better than mage top ST DPS.

    EDIT: Not sure if you know, but melee DPS is balanced to be higher than ranged DPS if they manage to stay in melee range.
    Last edited by Scyd; 09-23-2013 at 05:41 AM.

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    Rift Chaser Mykei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyd View Post
    Huh, of the 6 max level guides, there's only 1 harb and 1 sub harb. He has 3 ranged mage DPS guides. I don't see the bias. Furthermore, rogue ranged DPS was so behind that I doubt last few patches buffed them so much as to be better than mage top ST DPS.

    EDIT: Not sure if you know, but melee DPS is balanced to be higher than ranged DPS if they manage to stay in melee range.
    check out his latest parses, the top parse will be harbinger based. look at the ACT chart and you can see roughly 75% of the damage comes from melee range moves. i love harbinger, i used it to level in pvp and pve, but i like to heal and dps ranged and would like to see my parse in the top 5, but if there are 5 rogues then all bets are off... guides are great, thanks for the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    check out his latest parses, the top parse will be harbinger based. look at the ACT chart and you can see roughly 75% of the damage comes from melee range moves. i love harbinger, i used it to level in pvp and pve, but i like to heal and dps ranged and would like to see my parse in the top 5, but if there are 5 rogues then all bets are off... guides are great, thanks for the link.
    His latest parses show Harbinger at the top because Harbinger is the top Mage DPS spec. It has nothing to do with Val's personal preferences.

    Val is one of the top Rift theorycrafters and all of his guides are excellent, not just the ones with Harbinger.

    As far as DPS is concerned the fact of the matter is melee builds are designed by Trion to put out slightly more damage than ranged builds. This is due to melee having to deal with more mechanics than ranged and also having to deal with disconnects during the fight. That being said, if Rogues are playing MM or Ranger then you can absolutely pull more DPS with Pyro or Necro than they do if you are a skilled player.

    If you want to top the parses then play Harbinger. If you want to play ranged and still do great DPS then use Val's guides for Pyro or Necro.
    Last edited by takadox; 09-23-2013 at 05:58 AM.

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    Rift Chaser Mykei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takadox View Post
    His latest parses show Harbinger at the top because Harbinger is the top Mage DPS spec. It has nothing to do with Val's personal preferences.

    Val is one of the top Rift theorycrafters and all of his guides are excellent, not just the ones with Harbinger.

    As far as DPS is concerned the fact of the matter is melee builds are designed by Trion to put out slightly more damage than ranged builds. This is due to melee having to deal with more mechanics than ranged and also having to deal with disconnects during the fight. That being said, if Rogues are playing MM or Ranger then you can absolutely pull more DPS with Pyro or Necro than they do if you are a skilled player.

    If you want to top the parses then play Harbinger. If you want to play ranged and still do great DPS then use Val's guides for Pyro or Necro.

    my thought is the other guides val provides are proof that harbinger is the only viable build for a DPS mage. i have seen many guides like vals so he is not the defacto authority on Rift mage builds, but he IS current and knows how to use ACT, which makes his guides interesting. as i stated his guides are great, keep them coming, but my beef is about ranged having a low parse and Mage is a melee DPS class in Rift.

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    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    No one is forcing you to use harbinger to dps... I play elementalist, warlock and pyro in raids and two of those are already suboptimal
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    The range specs have different use than our melee spec. You use them for different situations and to provide different things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    my thought is the other guides val provides are proof that harbinger is the only viable build for a DPS mage. i have seen many guides like vals so he is not the defacto authority on Rift mage builds, but he IS current and knows how to use ACT, which makes his guides interesting. as i stated his guides are great, keep them coming, but my beef is about ranged having a low parse and Mage is a melee DPS class in Rift.
    Harbinger is the only viable build for a DPS mage? Don't make me laugh.

    Look at Val's findings again. 61 Pyro is only 6% behind 61 Harb. And that is with low CP gear. Pyro makes more use of CP gear than any other spec and if you gear yourself correctly the difference can be brought down to only a few percent.

    Go do a bit of research on the top raiding guilds. You'll see that their Mages run ranged builds like Pyro, Necro, and Lock very often. Just because Pyro is a few percent behind Harb does not mean it is not viable. Welcome to Rift, where you should be playing a different spec for almost every encounter because different specs bring more to the table than just DPS.

    Don't overdramatize the situation: bringing a ranged spec over a melee one is not going to drop you so far in DPS that you stop being helpful to your team. It is not going to cause your raid to fail an enrage timer. It is not going to make all your Rogues and Warriors automatically beat you on DPS. If you don't want to play a melee Mage then quite simply don't play a melee Mage. See how easy that was?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    i like to heal and dps ranged and would like to see my parse in the top 5, but if there are 5 rogues then all bets are off...
    I guess my question is, what rogue spec are you comparing against and in what situation? I hope you don't think that a pyro should be parsing higher than sin on ST or higher than sab on 8 targets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    my beef is about ranged having a low parse and Mage is a melee DPS class in Rift.
    Most parses, if not all, I've seen have been on testing dummies. I suspect that in real raids which usually involves some kind of movement or target swapping, melee classes are more susceptible to dps drops than ranged classes / specs.

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    Prophet of Telara Frailaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykei View Post
    my thought is the other guides val provides are proof that harbinger is the only viable build for a DPS mage. i have seen many guides like vals so he is not the defacto authority on Rift mage builds, but he IS current and knows how to use ACT, which makes his guides interesting. as i stated his guides are great, keep them coming, but my beef is about ranged having a low parse and Mage is a melee DPS class in Rift.
    In Rift, melee builds are supposed to be just slightly higher max dps potential than ranged builds. This is to allow for the more frequent disconnects that melee tend to suffer from to even out those numbers. Yes. Harb is currently the top dummy dps spec and is also even the top dps spec on some raid bosses. It is not the god of mage specs though. All Rift players are meant to use more than one spec - that's why you have 6+ slots available. IMHO, Necro is the best all-around dungeon spec. No, it's not the best ST dps nor the best AoE dps, nor the best support but it does do all 3 very well, is relatively user friendly, and most healers will love you for using your 30% link on the tank (or on them depending on the fight). You could also run Pyrochon in dungeons and do pretty well provided you have 1 point in Firestorm to give you that AoE. Most groups won't mind you running either of those builds even if they're not the absolute best ST dps.

    As for top dps, right now we have 61 Harb for melee and 61 Pyro for ranged.
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