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Thread: PvP Chloro Suggestions

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    Default PvP Chloro Suggestions

    Rather than post in the bloated (and now seemingly dead) mage suggestion topic, I am posting a few suggestions/observations here. Note that my primary focus is PvP, si I may bed looking at spells in a different point of view from raiders. Discussion is welcome.

    Synthesis: Should really be OGCD. Switching the focus of our LBV takes an extra 1.5 seconds. Our intended targets often have 3-5 seconds to live without our intervention. Between the GCD delay of switching Synth targets and travel time of spells such as Ruin and insta-NH, the target may very well die by the time the spell finally hits.

    Radiant Spores: A definite HPS loss in PvP. I made a point of spamming RS in two warfronts to measure its healing worth. RS cast every 8-14 seconds (depending on battle conditions) accounted for 2.3% and 2.2% of my healing, respectively. I have taken RS off my toolbar, as it is a waste of GCD in PvP. Can this be fixed without unduly upsetting raid balance? No idea.

    Withering Vines: Spamming this at every opportunity provides me 15%-20% of my heals. Slightly under-performing here. However, Withering Vines tends to be my top damage dealer when used in this manner. Not sure it is worth it for PvP. The healing provided is less than I would expect, given the amount of time I devote to spreading them.

    Natural Conversion: I would imagine this spell has great uses in raids and other PvE content. The 1.5 minute cooldown just makes it unworthy of consideration in PvP. PvP opponents are unpredictable and unscripted, and hovering a finger over this in anticipation of a finisher is a waste of mental energy. Greatly reduce the cooldown in this (as in, lower to 15 to 20 seconds) and it will be of some use in warfronts. Can abilities have different cooldowns depending on mode of play (raid, open world, instanced PvP)?

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    chloro is pretty much garbage for pvp unless you are in mass zerg fights like cq or bridge in port scion. The aoe we provide is nice, but our single target abilities are rediculously poor and won't save anyone under focus fire. Bloom is nice, Resurgence is a joke as the healing is low and over time. Natural healing output is rather low and anything with a cast time is just begging to be interupted. Even if you take stuns / silences out of the equation, a chloro can not single target blast heal and keep up with even a single dps class beating on them, much less keep someone up under any form of focused fire.

    However synth swapping being ogcd would be extremely powerful for pve purposes, and therefor will never happen.
    Last edited by vexare; 05-30-2013 at 04:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    However synth swapping being ogcd would be extremely powerful for pve purposes, and therefor will never happen.
    Off GCD with a bigger cooldown (say 10-15 seconds) could make it useful in PvP, but not have it be abused in PvE.
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    Synth used to be off the GCD and was put back on it with the 1.11/SL re-balancing of souls due to the heightened differentiation between Veils. I don't see that coming back any time soon.

    The problem with Chloros in PvP is that they cannot keep themselves alive. There's just nothing to be done for it. Trying to use Natural Healing on yourself is a guaranteed silence from a Rogue. We have no damage reduction CDs, we can't Synth ourselves. This, combined with the inability to cross-heal, makes Chloros completely dependent on the presence of healing Clerics to be effective.

    I honestly don't know the solution, because Chloro is in a perfect spot for PvE and it'd be near-impossible to address these issues without making the soul too powerful outside of PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archyface View Post
    Off GCD with a bigger cooldown (say 10-15 seconds) could make it useful in PvP, but not have it be abused in PvE.
    Then you screw over healers in small-group content who have to Veil swap to keep the group alive during heavy spike AOE damage (think Unhallowed Boneforge). Tanks can't always live 15 seconds without incoming LBV heals on content they don't overgear.

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    Chloro can work without clerics in pvp. Synth gives powerful single target healing and can keep someone alive fairly easily when using the various cooldowns. If the enemy switches targets during the CD of synth, then symbiosis can be used. If symbiosis is on CD too then your ally is probably going to die.
    My main issue is the lack of survivability. I put 6 points into SC for the 25%damage reduction CD, which is pretty good. There is a big lack in self-healing options though, natural healing just doesn't cut it.

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    Some pretty good responses so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    chloro is pretty much garbage for pvp unless you are in mass zerg fights like cq or bridge in port scion. The aoe we provide is nice, but our single target abilities are rediculously poor and won't save anyone under focus fire. Bloom is nice, Resurgence is a joke as the healing is low and over time. Natural healing output is rather low and anything with a cast time is just begging to be interupted. Even if you take stuns / silences out of the equation, a chloro can not single target blast heal and keep up with even a single dps class beating on them, much less keep someone up under any form of focused fire.

    However synth swapping being ogcd would be extremely powerful for pve purposes, and therefor will never happen.
    Not garbage, really. Even in small groups. LGV with CS, Ruin, and VL/VS thrown in for quick Nature's Touch casts provide decent AoE heals even for smaller groups. It won't keep anyone alive for long, but it will keep them alive long enough to throw out an extra GCD or three and buy time for ST healers.

    But yeah, Natural Healing is utter rubbish. Bloom, Healing Torrent, and Resurgence are pretty bad considering they have a cooldown. The issue with the chloro's direct heals is that they simply do not scale. Pre-SL I could go into a library match and get top heals without doing a drop of damage. Our direct heals were competitive. But going from lvl 50 to 60, these spells see very little improvement and are rendered obsolete by the time we get to lvl 60 warfronts. Better scaling with SP might help these spells out. I don't expect to perform at the level of Sentinels with them, but they should at least keep up with damage from a single DPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Synth used to be off the GCD and was put back on it with the 1.11/SL re-balancing of souls due to the heightened differentiation between Veils. I don't see that coming back any time soon.

    The problem with Chloros in PvP is that they cannot keep themselves alive. There's just nothing to be done for it. Trying to use Natural Healing on yourself is a guaranteed silence from a Rogue. We have no damage reduction CDs, we can't Synth ourselves. This, combined with the inability to cross-heal, makes Chloros completely dependent on the presence of healing Clerics to be effective.

    I honestly don't know the solution, because Chloro is in a perfect spot for PvE and it'd be near-impossible to address these issues without making the soul too powerful outside of PvP.



    Then you screw over healers in small-group content who have to Veil swap to keep the group alive during heavy spike AOE damage (think Unhallowed Boneforge). Tanks can't always live 15 seconds without incoming LBV heals on content they don't overgear.
    Survivability is definitely an issue. Currently, the only way to survive is to kite as much as possible. Given the low amount of instant casts we have, that is sometimes a challenge. Being able to cast Symbiosis on ourselves would definitely help there, as would increased mobility so that we spend less time standing around like sitting ducks - like being able to move while channeling void life.

    As for Synthesis: take if off GCD and increase the cooldown to 8 or 10 seconds. Problem solved.

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    Increasing the cooldown of Synth would cause problems in PvP. The length of the CD already causes issues for me.

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    Survivability issues are mostly taken care of by going 15 warlock 0 archon. Use your Opp procs for torrent.

    Still don't see why removing global and cooldown from synth would be overpowered when sentinels already have that.

    Chloro also needs a second break free or something like it.

    Lastly, put a cooldown resetter. Then chloro would be as good as it's going to get for PvP without removing the restrictions on veils healing veils.

    Perhaps also implement another boon of life for natural healing that reduces cast time/cd of Healing Torrent.

    This is assuming 61chloro/15lock. If you're going to assume a different spec, then there's a lot more I'd change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    Survivability issues are mostly taken care of by going 15 warlock 0 archon. Use your Opp procs for torrent.
    Meh. It's not that much better. Opp procs are very random and if you don't get one, you're screwed. You have to sacrifice your pushback redux and Flicker for that spec, and your healing takes a dive without BF and Edlritch Knowledge. It's sturdier but it really doesn't address the bigger issue: Chloro is destroyed by silencing interrupts.

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    Just a few ideas

    1. Increase the healing the mage receives from their LGV, but not LBV. You don't want god-like pocket healers. People would need to switch veils if they want to live (I do this already, but the LGV heals from spamming withering vine suck).
    2. An instant heal that does maybe 1/3 of the healing of Natural Healing.
    3. A skill to channel mana or charge into HP for the mage. Usable while moving.
    4. Give back the old immunity to snare/root ability.
    5. Significantly reduce the CD on natural conversion.
    6. An AE knockback/Mez/Fear, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Some pretty good responses so far.



    Not garbage, really. Even in small groups....blah blah blah... It won't keep anyone alive for long.
    Not being able to keep someone alive for any length of period is pretty much the definition of a garbage healer.
    Last edited by vexare; 05-31-2013 at 06:23 PM.

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