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Thread: Archon / Chloro?

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Default Archon / Chloro?

    So I plan on, with the more incoming role slots, having a variety of different support roles. What about a 51 Archon / 25 Chloro?

    http://www.rifthead.com/stc/zcdzRvIo...krrkszvydhhzVo <---- idea for the build.

    We would keep all but one of the Archon's raid buffs and ALL of the Archon's Auras. We lose Archon's Bulwark and Point to Point but all the other utilities are still there. Healing is maximized and we get the many of the Chloro's utilites.

    We get 58.5% extra healing through the 25 points in Chloro along with things in both trees.


    What do you all think of this? Has anyone tested anything similar? Is this viable when more healing is needed apposed to a bit more utility?
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    is this for pvp?
    who took my names!

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Raiding. It COULD be used in PvP but I would use it to raid with.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Plane Walker BadTouch's Avatar
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    No.

    Reason being

    51 Archon 25 chloro will output up to 600 hps and 3000 dps
    51 archon 25 pyro outputs 11k dps.
    Badtouch @ Gelidra - Level 60 Mage
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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadTouch View Post
    No.

    Reason being

    51 Archon 25 chloro will output up to 600 hps and 3000 dps
    51 archon 25 pyro outputs 11k dps.
    That little healing? Wow. Yeah I plan on having a 51 Archon 21 Pyro, but I didn't expect that little from 25 Chloro.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Hps isn't a good measure of this build's usefulness because so much time is spent casting non-healing abilities. You're healing on and off so over the course of a fight total hps would be pretty low. But during any heavy aoe damage with flourish and vile spores spam you should be above bard level heals.

    When veils were broken I actually ran this exact thing a few times and it did alright. Usually at the hps level of a full bard over an entire fight. Dps suffered quite a bit but was still around 5k.

    Overall though I think if your guild is considering running a spec like this they'd be better suited to running a chloro/harb. The hps from a chloroharb would massively outdo archon hps, chloroharbs get many more healing tools to help with all kinds of healing situations, and the dps loss of a chloroharb would probably be not too different than the dps loss of a chlorochon.

    If you personally want to run it for giggles and dps checks aren't an issue give it a shot. No one complains to the archon anyway as long as the buffs are up. But I don't think the spec has a place for any serious progression.
    Last edited by MonkeysUncle; 05-19-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadTouch View Post
    No.

    Reason being

    51 Archon 25 chloro will output up to 600 hps and 3000 dps
    51 archon 25 pyro outputs 11k dps.
    Sorry, no this is wrong. 51/25chloro can work well, depending on the fight. It's viable, but it's a hybrid spec, so you end up getting what you ask for pretty much.

    For April Fools our guild archon ran it as a joke and did 8k dps/4k hps consistantly a couple times on Matriarch. To give you an idea of where he's at, he usually does 12-12.5k on Kain or other high uptime fights and 16k on Goloch.

    Vile Spores as a filler instead of Pillaging stone is amazing. Ruin(and VS) coupled with Nature's Corrosion and 6500sp is very strong. This spec can also be viable 5man support for a change of pace because it has flourish, spammable aoe cleanse, bloom for a spot heal and nice buffs/debuffs including powerdrain. I've solo healed bosses with the spec, too, though I had to revert to mostly chloro spells to do it.

    Most people's instinct is to instantly disregard the spec because 25points in chloro doesn't get you a lot, including %bonus healing, but when VS is reduced to a 1.6cast it helps make up for it. Also, some people don't realize that 51pt specs are pretty much the standard and that after your first 4main nukes that hit really hard you can use any filler you want, providing good synergy with a lot of souls(hence 51/25pyro, etc.).

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    Sorry, no this is wrong. 51/25chloro can work well, depending on the fight. It's viable, but it's a hybrid spec, so you end up getting what you ask for pretty much.

    For April Fools our guild archon ran it as a joke and did 8k dps/4k hps consistantly a couple times on Matriarch. To give you an idea of where he's at, he usually does 12-12.5k on Kain or other high uptime fights and 16k on Goloch.

    Vile Spores as a filler instead of Pillaging stone is amazing. Ruin(and VS) coupled with Nature's Corrosion and 6500sp is very strong. This spec can also be viable 5man support for a change of pace because it has flourish, spammable aoe cleanse, bloom for a spot heal and nice buffs/debuffs including powerdrain. I've solo healed bosses with the spec, too, though I had to revert to mostly chloro spells to do it.

    Most people's instinct is to instantly disregard the spec because 25points in chloro doesn't get you a lot, including %bonus healing, but when VS is reduced to a 1.6cast it helps make up for it. Also, some people don't realize that 51pt specs are pretty much the standard and that after your first 4main nukes that hit really hard you can use any filler you want, providing good synergy with a lot of souls(hence 51/25pyro, etc.).
    So it's not good for progression - but it wouldn't hurt where DPS is less important and healing is?
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    @Op use this http://www.rifthead.com/stc/zcdzRvIo...krrkszvydhhzVo

    You need Nature's Corrosion for hps *and* dps. You don't need flowing sands or 1.0 gcd auras, I moved those around to damage and blood pact(improves your aura). You can trade Mental Flare for Waning Power, or drop a point of damage for it.

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    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    So it's not good for progression - but it wouldn't hurt where DPS is less important and healing is?
    I don't know how your guild operates but mine tends to overheal while learning a fight and then once mechanics start to get cleaned up, cut back on healers and aim to beat the dps checks. So it depends how you go about things. You can cut back healers(or add healers) many different ways. Whether it be simply taking away a Warden or changing out Tact/bard(7k hps~) for 61bard(4-5khps~ but more dps cds) or going from Archon/chloro to Archon/pyro.

    The great part about adding hps for a trade in dps through Archon is that you don't lose a role to do it. For instance, a fight where Warlock is the superior spec because it can double dot or cleave, you wouldn't want them to switch to chloro harb because the loss is greater(20k dps/0k hps vs 10kdps/4k hps).

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    @Op use this http://www.rifthead.com/stc/zcdzRvIo...krrkszvydhhzVo

    You need Nature's Corrosion for hps *and* dps. You don't need flowing sands or 1.0 gcd auras, I moved those around to damage and blood pact(improves your aura). You can trade Mental Flare for Waning Power, or drop a point of damage for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    I don't know how your guild operates but mine tends to overheal while learning a fight and then once mechanics start to get cleaned up, cut back on healers and aim to beat the dps checks. So it depends how you go about things. You can cut back healers(or add healers) many different ways. Whether it be simply taking away a Warden or changing out Tact/bard(7k hps~) for 61bard(4-5khps~ but more dps cds) or going from Archon/chloro to Archon/pyro.

    The great part about adding hps for a trade in dps through Archon is that you don't lose a role to do it. For instance, a fight where Warlock is the superior spec because it can double dot or cleave, you wouldn't want them to switch to chloro harb because the loss is greater(20k dps/0k hps vs 10kdps/4k hps).
    I wasn't really getting to specific with what goes where, but yes that is much better thanks. I honestly can't explain how we try fights. We pull 12 different guides and videos and create our own way to do the fight. But yeah I see what you are saying. With the max 20 role slots I'll have 15 different ways to Archon, with a bunch of different varieties.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    The healing with vile spores is nearly the same(max 5-10% difference) like a 61 chloro due to the casttime reduction.
    But if you want to group heal you should also pick up Nature`s Touch....you only need 2 points in Boon of Life for Nature`s Touch it will still have 0,1 sec casttime but you can cast it instant if Surging Flare is up...if you feel uncomfortable with it put 3 points into Boon of Life and 1 point out of CIrcle of Life.

    Here my reccomended version for archon healing: http://www.rifthead.com/stc/zcdzRvIo...krrkszvydhhzVo
    Last edited by Soulshield; 05-19-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  13. #13
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    The problem with these hybrid chloro builds is that with a veil up you cannot receive healing from other chloromancers.

    Full-healing chloros don't worry too much about dying because they are constantly healing; a hybrid archon/chloro still needs to maintain the regular buffs/debuffs, so there's plenty of time where they are not healing, while also not receiving any healing from full chloromancers.

    This is why harb/chloro was bad.
    Last edited by Ahov; 05-19-2013 at 02:42 PM.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    I wasn't really getting to specific with what goes where, but yes that is much better thanks.
    Okay, wasn't sure. Anyway, gl with the spec, it's a fun one xD

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    The problem with these hybrid chloro builds is that with a veil up you cannot receive healing from other chloromancers.

    Full-healing chloros don't worry too much about dying because they are constantly healing; a hybrid archon/chloro still needs to maintain the regular buffs/debuffs, so there's plenty of time where they are not healing, while also not receiving any healing from full chloromancers.

    This is why harb/chloro was bad.
    That was my first concern too, but apparently it's not that big of a deal. If our archon survived an entire night of Matriarch, with how bursty that damage is, it's obviously not an issue. Both of us use a macro with Spark Shower on top, Ruin second because it hits so hard. This breaks up the four casts a bit with healing. Can't say for sure if this contributed to him surviving greatly, but we also did have a tact/bard and puri shields.

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