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Thread: Pyro rotation/guide?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Pyro rotation/guide?

    Has there been a new 61 pyro guide yet? If so, where?

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    Rift Disciple
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    No, not yet. But the most important thing about 61 Pyro is utilizing Pyromancer's Aegis double fireball procs optimally, lining up your CDs with raid-wide buffs (i.e Flaring Power) and using Heatwave effectively to refresh them.

    This is the opening rotation I use. Not sure if it's the best, but I average out at ~12.5k DPS over 4 minutes on the dummy on live:

    Start at full charge by spamming Fire Storm -> Flame Bolt -> Prime -> Extinguish -> Fireball -> [IC on] Countdown [IC off] -> Searing Vitality -> Fireball -> Fulminate -> Blazing Light -> Fireball -> Flame Bolt -> [IC on] Countdown [IC off] -> Fireball -> Wildfire Flamebolt x2 or last instant Fireball

    I use this rotation because, with a little bit of luck at the end, you proc Aegis 5/5 times off your instant fireballs. The dots etc. are fillers whilst you wait for Aegis' 3s ICD to fall off. From there you time CDs properly, keep the imp. Flame Bolt damage buff on you and make sure to have IC up whenever you can - especially for Countdown.

    Although, please, if anyone else has a better opening rotation, or a more comprehensive guide, go ahead and post it
    Last edited by Vordred; 04-14-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordred View Post
    No, not yet. But the most important thing about 61 Pyro is utilizing Pyromancer's Aegis double fireball procs optimally, lining up your CDs with raid-wide buffs (i.e Flaring Power) and using Heatwave effectively to refresh them.

    This is the opening rotation I use. Not sure if it's the best, but I average out at ~12.5k DPS over 4 minutes on the dummy on live:

    Start at full charge by spamming Fire Storm -> Flame Bolt -> Prime -> Extinguish -> Fireball -> [IC on] Countdown [IC off] -> Searing Vitality -> Fireball -> Fulminate -> Blazing Light -> Fireball -> Flame Bolt -> [IC on] Countdown [IC off] -> Fireball -> Wildfire Flamebolt x2 or last instant Fireball

    I use this rotation because, with a little bit of luck at the end, you proc Aegis 5/5 times off your instant fireballs. The dots etc. are fillers whilst you wait for Aegis' 3s ICD to fall off. From there you time CDs properly, keep the imp. Flame Bolt damage buff on you and make sure to have IC up whenever you can - especially for Countdown.

    Although, please, if anyone else has a better opening rotation, or a more comprehensive guide, go ahead and post it
    You're waiting too long on cooldowns. No competent archon waits that long for flaring, and if it's a delayed flaring (let's say you're saving it for regulos island phase or something) you still wouldn't wait that long for cooldowns

    My highest parses were without fulminate, so my rotation also looks a bit different from yours.

    Open with hard-cast fireball if possible > flame bolt > {IC} {Extinguish} Prime > Fireball > Countdown > Filler until flaring

    (Assume Flaring just activated)

    cooldown block: Fusillade > Fireball (making sure to get double-proc) > Flame Volley > Finish extinguish fireballs > {Heatwave} Hard-cast cinderburst (1.5s) > Fusillade > spam dem fireballs until 80-ish charge and reactivate IC > Flame volley after heatwave ends

    Not quite listed: maintaining flame bolt. That's on you. You always want it up. A bit of rng with your procs means you can't really use a "rotation" in pyro akin to Tempest.
    Last edited by Ahov; 04-14-2013 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser nicold's Avatar
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    5 stacks of combust. Use **** on CD. Spam fireball. Boom 20k pyro parse.
    "I killed and ate a girl in 1990." - Jacob 'Daglar' Daglarson
    "Nicold is the best mage EU" - Arthur "Noge" Nogenstein
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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    You're waiting too long on cooldowns. No competent archon waits that long for flaring, and if it's a delayed flaring (let's say you're saving it for regulos island phase or something) you still wouldn't wait that long for cooldowns
    Well on one of the only fights where I would consider Pyro viable, Goloch. This opener fits very well, and ends at roughly the same time as the first bubble comes. That means you can pop a crit pot, pop all of your CDs and then Heatwave and do it again if you're fast enough.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Berzz's Avatar
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    The most important thing you can do when playing pyromancer is maintaining structured rotations to min/max the Aegis ICD.

    Main structure:
    a) Fireball -> Filler -> Repeat

    When Extinguish is Up:
    b) Fireball -> Filler -> Filler -> Repeat

    c) If you can't maintain those structures ie; not enough fillers, you resort to fireball spam.

    My opening rotation depends on VoJ but You wan't to blow through all of your cooldowns then pop Heatwave @ Full *ish* charge as soon as possible.

    My opening Rotation: @ Full Charge

    IC on (On Pull) Fireball -> Prime -> Extinguish *Off GCD* ->Flame Bolt ->Countdown -> Fireball -> Flame Volley -> Structure b) Until Fusillade (there is a 15 second ICD with extinguish)-> IC OFF [you will have enough charge to still clip fusillade] -> Build Charge up to at least 85 using filler a) b) or c)

    *Note*
    At this point you have likely dipped a couple seconds into flaring. If the flaring timing works out, you can sometimes get 2 fusillades during one flaring. The ICD really ****s it up there but will be removed in the next push of pyro changes. As soon as you get a full charge bar, or notice VoJ has gone off immediately pop heatwave with IC on. I personally like to pop heatwave after countdown, and go Countdown -> Heatwave -> Countdown. In my opening rotation, it should line up where as you hit countdown you are closing in around the 80-90 charge mark, Making Countdown -> Heatwave -> Countdown completely possible.

    After hitting 85 charge -> Blow heatwave with IC on while maintaining a heatwave priority. (Do not maintain the structures a) b) or c) during heatwave.) It is Fusillade> Countdown > Fireball while maintaining the 10% damage buff from flame bolt.

    I have a mini guide for the PTS version (1.3 second fireballs), but we don't have them quite yet although the principles are basically the same in both builds.
    Last edited by Berzz; 04-14-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Berzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzz View Post
    *Note*
    At this point you have likely dipped a couple seconds into flaring. If the flaring timing works out, you can sometimes get 2 fusillades during one flaring.
    im noob, you always get 2 fusillades, and 2 flame volley's with the flaring.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker merder's Avatar
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    Hey chro, Sunzu here

    Basically berzz named it all

    Just note there will be a giant burst followed by trying to sustain dps, in between cool downs. When extinguish is up, don't just blow your fireball load. Spread your gcd's between them as berzz mentioned. Also make sure IC is toggled when you start channeling flame volley, but you can untoggle as soon as its into it, and it will receive the dmg buff for the duration.
    Formerly Manwitch.... 4/4 FT 5/5 EE 3/4 GA

  9. #9
    Plane Walker merder's Avatar
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    Also, to add


    I DO use fulminate to see the big number... But from what I hear its always a loss, although throughout my parses I don't see an impact, positive or negative.


    New pyromancers armor should let fusillade proc instantly, and reset its cd, ijs
    Formerly Manwitch.... 4/4 FT 5/5 EE 3/4 GA

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzz View Post
    The most important thing you can do when playing pyromancer is maintaining structured rotations to min/max the Aegis ICD.

    Main structure:
    a) Fireball -> Filler -> Repeat

    When Extinguish is Up:
    b) Fireball -> Filler -> Filler -> Repeat

    c) If you can't maintain those structures ie; not enough fillers, you resort to fireball spam.

    .....moreguide.....
    I mix in searing vitality because it's a 1s GCD even though its damage is lame so for me not having enough filler is never an issue. It maintains the 3s division of fireballs that way at all times. Searing vitality is always the first thing I ditch when there are procs or when extinguish is up though. I doubt it even has 50% uptime when I parse.

    Not having enough filler is mentioned, but sometimes the way procs line up there are too many fillers.

    For example, you go fireball>flamebolt>fireball>countdown>fireball>sea ring vitality>fireball. Imagine searing vitality pops cinderburst. You need to use flame bolt next to refresh the 10% damage buff, then fireball for the double proc, and then countdown has fallen off so you want to refresh that. If you fire off another fireball for a double proc at that point, the cinderburst proc will disappear without being used. Times like these I shove in 2 fillers between fireballs. The alternatives are letting countdown fall off for 4s or missing cinderburst which I think are both worse than 1s delay in a double fireball.

    It's a pretty easy build to parse highly with quickly, although I always felt like I never quite used IC optimally and mixed in procs perfectly so I felt like I was always missing out on 300-500dps.
    Last edited by MonkeysUncle; 04-14-2013 at 02:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Berzz's Avatar
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    I was never convinced that searing was a dps increase when I tested it.
    Searing Vitality can't proc wildfire
    Fireball has an extra 10% chance to crit.
    Fireball scales better?

    Right now I just use it on movement, but for simplicity sake going fireball -> searing vitality -> fireball is fine when you have no fillers left. With the new changes to spark it definitely will be a DPS loss when it makes it to live.

    Also, Backdraft hits harder than searing does so you can put that at the bottom of the filler priority although it usually is a pain.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzz View Post
    I was never convinced that searing was a dps increase when I tested it.
    Searing Vitality can't proc wildfire
    Fireball has an extra 10% chance to crit.
    Fireball scales better?

    Right now I just use it on movement, but for simplicity sake going fireball -> searing vitality -> fireball is fine when you have no fillers left. With the new changes to spark it definitely will be a DPS loss when it makes it to live.

    Also, Backdraft hits harder than searing does so you can put that at the bottom of the filler priority although it usually is a pain.
    Backdraft doing better damage than searing vitality is quite sneaky.

    I did some maths trying to figure if SV would be a gain and figured I'd share. If you do countdown>fireball>flame bolt>fireball, you can either
    cast 1 fireball in 2s and repeat
    cast 2 fireballs in 4s for the double proc and repeat
    cast SV and fireball in 3s and repeat.

    My tooltip has fireball averaging 8.1k and searing at 5.5k self buffed. Take into account the 10% more crit chance and SV is still worth 60% of a fireball. Tooltips for flame bolt and countdown show their damages are pretty much equal to fireball, except countdown gains 55% damage with 5 combust stacks. So count flame bolt as 1 fireball and countdown as 1.55 fireballs and you can get a general idea of the worth of the three different rotations.
    1. ~7.55 fireballs in 8s, or .944 a second
    2. ~9.55 fireballs in 10s, or .955 a second
    3. ~9.15 fireballs in 9s, or 1.016 a second

    Even if fireball scales way better in raid and you lowball SV as worth .4 fireballs, rotation 3 gives the best output on damage alone.

    The worth of the added wildfire procs is a little stranger to quantify. With wildfire up I just fireball>CD>fireball>FB>fireball>FB which worth about 9.55 fireballs in 9s(1.061 per second). At this point I'm not entirely sure how to properly weight the extra fireball, but you can ballpark it. Three fireballs gives a 64% chance of proccing wildfire, and four gives a 76% chance. If you weight the rotations using these percentiles, rotation 3 comes out on top but not by much. Something like .01 fireballs/second. So in a raid setting if your fireballs are averaging out to 13k, thats 130 dps.

    Even if my math is correct though, the 130 dps gain from using SV in a spam rotation becomes maybe 50 dps overall once the use of other cooldowns are factored in. To me it seems it's not at a level actually noticeable in a parse.

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