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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Mage Suggestion Thread (Part II)

  1. #1
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    Default Mage Suggestion Thread (Part II)

    Starting this thread so we can continue to bring up mage suggestions. Hopefully this thread will give us a clean thread to start over with.

    This is not the place for lengthy discussions of class balance. Instead, lets try to keep this focused on constructive suggestions for the mage calling.

    Here is the most recent suggestion from the other thread that I could find to start things off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    I really don't understand why so much attention has been given to Pyromancer and Warlock, when Necromancer and Elementalist need far more attention. I'll try to keep the Q_Q to a minimum.

    If pet scaling is an issue in raids, the purpose of the pet needs to change. Instead of the mage working to boost the pet's damage, it should work the other way around, with procs and damage buffs that make the player fill like what they're doing has impact. If difficulty is what is keeping pet specs inferior, then let's make them more difficult and engaging to make up for that.

    1) Remove the near-invulnerability of pets to AoE damage, and instead give both Elementalist and Necromancers ways to make their pet's immune to damage for a short duration and on a short cooldown, i.e. 4 second invulnerability with a 15 second cooldown. If there's an AoE going out, the owner of the pet should be responsible for keeping it alive.

    2) Reduce the cooldown of the instant pet summons to 30 seconds, each.

    3) Allow non-tank pets to match the caster's HP pool. There's no reason why I should have 16.6k health, and my Revenent only has 7.2k HP. This will help with point 1. Tank pets should have double the health of the caster, though tank buffs should be excluded (so no super tank pigs or satyrs)

    4) All tank pets (including pets from other classes) should function like Beacon of Dispair, in that threat is passively transferred from caster to pet. This will greatly improve their viability in soloing, as those pets can't really hold AoE threat at all with 20 second cooldowns on AoE abilities, and low target limitations.

    I understand the need for some simple specs for those players that can't handle it, but that does no justice to those of us who can perform at a higher level but want to use pets.

    I performed an experiment with the Necrolist spec, and Epidemic really skews things too far in Crystalline Missile's favor. Over numerous tests, I was able to eek out far more DPS just spamming that one spell and keeping Ignite up rather than using any other Elementalist or Necromancer abilities. What this means is that even if I could optimize, the spells do so little damage in the long run that the complexity just isn't rewarded.

    Epidemic probably needs an internal cooldown, but the spell needs to be boosted to compensate for that. Maybe something like a 3-5 internal cooldown with a 3 to 5x damage boost.

    The cycles are a great idea, but it really feels like the current implementation just doesn't reward enough for the focus. I'm not really certain how damage modifiers work, but I don't notice a significant increase in damage whenever I try to pay attention to the buffs. The base damage of the spells is too low, in general, as well. While Volcanic Eruption and Prismatic Volley hit hard, every other spell just pales in comparison, so optimizing only improves your DPS by less than a few hundred, at best.

    Finally, the utility of these pet souls is just way too low. Compare Pyromancer to Elementalist. Pyro has interrupts, stuns, a root and a disarm, compared to Elementalist's purge that it gets from Necromancer. Both can break out of CC, though Pyro's is better for minimizing movement. Necromancer gets that purge and Feign Death, and nothing else.

    I really want these specs to be useful. They simply just don't do enough damage, as a whole. A person could macro Pyromancer and do more damage than an Elementalist or Necromancer, and that's just not fair. Make players manage their pets and reward them for doing a good job at it.
    Last edited by smellwhat; 04-01-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  2. #2
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    I suggest that chloromancer values get reduced to their 2.0 versions

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    How can one give constructive suggestions without balance in mind?
    Because I would love for necros to be able to self res.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    How can one give constructive suggestions without balance in mind?
    Because I would love for necros to be able to self res.
    Good point. Balance is important. I didn't say it wasn't. But it also does not need to be discussed at length in one class's suggestion thread (as the previous one had turned into). I just want a reasonable discussion back. If there are more serious issues that need to be brought up, that's why we have the ability to start another thread.

    And I thought the self res was called "feign death".

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    I wouldn't really like my tank pet to function like beacon of despair, its fun for awhile, then it gets a little boring. I like pet specs that require some pet management and if you manage them right they will hold aggro

    agree epidemic needs to be changed. much as I like it. The cycle buffs mechanic of elementalist is made a little redundant by epidemic and it could be a fun and interesting spec to play it those cycle buffs mattered more

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    Warlock
    + Sacrifice: Life for Damage can now be cast when Contaminate is active. Using Sacrifice: Life for Damage will turn off Contaminate if it is active.

    Chloromancer
    + Four piece raid bonus now also procced by Vile Spores (but not ticks from Nature's Corrosion), Natural Healing (which allows for pre application before an encounter) and Bloom. Buff lasts for 15sec up from 10sec.

    General
    + Targeted channeled spells lasting 3 sec or less may now be cast while moving and don't break with movement. This includes spells such as Void Barrage and Void Life. This does NOT include gtaoe spells such Devouring Shadows and Fire Storm. Movement while channeling will produce a charge drain of 5 charge per second (so it's not for free).

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    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I suggest that chloromancer values get reduced to their 2.0 versions
    It perplexes me why Ahov's efforts are so frequently put into bringing down others instead of bringing up what he sees as being in deficit.
    We may experience content in different ways, but I don't see chloro tank heals as being 'op'. If there is some issue with cleric heals, by all means feel free to address it; but the constant repetitive crusades of Ahov's against other classes is some combination between tiresome and delusional.

    The gamestate doesn't need to exist in a place where we pick the weakest of any given role and bring everyone else down to their level. With hardmodes being planned content that exceeds the capability of almost the entire playbase in the game (some exceeding the capability of the entire playerbase lol!), the notion that overall character powerlevels can't be brought up to match whatever is currently at the top is silly.

    As an example, if all melee specs were capable of keeping up with Riftblade on live, that wouldn't be a bad thing for the health of the game. This doesn't just mean that one class needs a boost, but instead that almost all of them do.

    Constructive ideas towards balance are those that bring us all up together. This seems to be the goal of the thread, and with the exception of very specifically 'broken' specs (bugged specs, as an example), there seems to be little reason why we can't be capable of this. This destructive-oriented balance plan of nerfing people not only has the potential of making raid content harder (as opposed to the existing Trion dynamic of making it easier over time), it also has a very negative PR effect on people's minds. Like it or not, if class1 was at 800dps, class 2 at 900dps and class 3 at 1000dps; a nerf of class 3 for 20% and nerf of class 2 for 11% will go over poorly, while giving class 1 a 25% increase and class2 an 11% increase will go over better. Best yet, increasing class 1 by 37.5%, class2 by 22% and class 3 by 10% would likely go over even better with the population. Does this server to reduce the difficulty of current content? Yes. Can future content not be developed with this in mind: you know it can.

    So, can we stop with the petty non-stop destructive nature of these attacks or are they your only method of posting in forums outside of the cleric forum?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovack View Post
    It perplexes me why Ahov's efforts are so frequently put into bringing down others instead of bringing up what he sees as being in deficit.
    We may experience content in different ways, but I don't see chloro tank heals as being 'op'. If there is some issue with cleric heals, by all means feel free to address it; but the constant repetitive crusades of Ahov's against other classes is some combination between tiresome and delusional.

    The gamestate doesn't need to exist in a place where we pick the weakest of any given role and bring everyone else down to their level. With hardmodes being planned content that exceeds the capability of almost the entire playbase in the game (some exceeding the capability of the entire playerbase lol!), the notion that overall character powerlevels can't be brought up to match whatever is currently at the top is silly.

    As an example, if all melee specs were capable of keeping up with Riftblade on live, that wouldn't be a bad thing for the health of the game. This doesn't just mean that one class needs a boost, but instead that almost all of them do.

    Constructive ideas towards balance are those that bring us all up together. This seems to be the goal of the thread, and with the exception of very specifically 'broken' specs (bugged specs, as an example), there seems to be little reason why we can't be capable of this. This destructive-oriented balance plan of nerfing people not only has the potential of making raid content harder (as opposed to the existing Trion dynamic of making it easier over time), it also has a very negative PR effect on people's minds. Like it or not, if class1 was at 800dps, class 2 at 900dps and class 3 at 1000dps; a nerf of class 3 for 20% and nerf of class 2 for 11% will go over poorly, while giving class 1 a 25% increase and class2 an 11% increase will go over better. Best yet, increasing class 1 by 37.5%, class2 by 22% and class 3 by 10% would likely go over even better with the population. Does this server to reduce the difficulty of current content? Yes. Can future content not be developed with this in mind: you know it can.

    So, can we stop with the petty non-stop destructive nature of these attacks or are they your only method of posting in forums outside of the cleric forum?
    "This is not the place for lengthy discussions of class balance. Instead, lets try to keep this focused on constructive suggestions for the mage calling."

    Keep this stuff to the first thread? You don't HAVE to post just because Ahov said something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanlo View Post
    I mean, you didn't see Gandalf bunnyhopping through Mordor blasting away with instant cast spells.

  9. #9
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    Warlock
    + Sacrifice: Life for Damage can now be cast when Contaminate is active. Using Sacrifice: Life for Damage will turn off Contaminate if it is active.
    Yes please.

  10. #10
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    Dear Kervik,

    Please don't balance souls around ONE single ability, like you did with Pyromancer on PTS.

    The spec feels so boring and unrewarding currently that it's simply is no fun to play. It's too much centered around Fireball.
    Did you forget that Pyromancer has many other abilities, too? And most of them are instant cast and would also make for a great mobility. Why not balance around them?

    You did a great job with balancing Warlock and even Elementalist is well balanced (though it's not top DPS and pet issues aside).
    I beg you, please don't mess things up with Pyromancer.

    Regards,
    Sindariel
    Sindariel - Mage - Brutmutter EU

  11. #11
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    Suggestion:

    Change pyromancer's Aegis to let an additional fireball proc to be able to occur once every 2.7 seconds rather than every 3 seconds.

    Reasoning: On the dummy you can do a rotation to get a double Fireball every other spell. In raids, I suspect this will fall flat on its face due to Burning purpose and such in a raid setting.

    I hope it won't be the case of using macrowait 0.25 with Fireball in a similar fashion to how Vile Spores used to be used for maximum output.

    Note: I've been inactive lately and after very brief testing this is my first impression from the Pyromancer's Aegis change
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellwhat View Post
    Warlock

    General
    + Targeted channeled spells lasting 3 sec or less may now be cast while moving and don't break with movement. This includes spells such as Void Barrage and Void Life. This does NOT include gtaoe spells such Devouring Shadows and Fire Storm. Movement while channeling will produce a charge drain of 5 charge per second (so it's not for free).
    Too OP. You want to drop every last bit of lack of mobility we have, we are caster, not runners.

  13. #13
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    Stormcaller

    I like Kervik`s work on Stormcaller but this soul still needs help. This soul is still behind other AOE souls in basically all aspects like dmg, mobility ect.

    In my opinion it Stormcaller should stay what it always was - a powerful AOE soul with complicated rotation, long ramp up time and other drawbacks. But there has to be a reward for this. If AOE rotation is properly executed then it has to be devastating like it used to be. I`d like the days when ppl were marking Stormcallers in WFs and shouting "kill the SC" to be back.

    Few suggestions:

    1. Change Tempest Armor so it gives 15 % dmg bonus to all spells and decrease gcd of air and water spells, change Charged Field to affect 5 targets

    2. Get rid of some root/tree abilities that aren't very useful and replace them with new ones that would help with some of the SC issues. In my opinion we don`t need:

    - Scattered Bolts - just make FL 8 target on default
    - Cold Weather Training - we got only 2 casted water spells and both of them are casted when we get a proc from Strom Shard or Tempest Armor, just make Icicle and HS default 2 sec cast
    - Wind Chill - almost every melee pvp spec has a spamable range attack, KBs aren`t very useful in PvP atm
    - Pouring Rain - spell becomes obsolete if Tempest Armor is changed
    - Storm Armor - useless in PvE, limited value in PvP, there are no viable hybrid SC builds atm so everyone is using Tempest Armor anyway

    3. We got too much charge consumers. Change Ride the Wind or Storm Guard to a normal buff or at least change it so it consumes a fixed number of charge.

    4. Here`s some on my old SC suggestion from January 2012 (Old Thread) that are still viable (I suggested increasing elec stacks and making slow off DR there ) Maybe you`ll find them interesting:

    Electrolute – no longer knock backs the enemy. At the end of the channel enemy gets a 6 sec debuff. While this effect is active the enemy will do xxx dmg to 6 of his allies in 8 m radius every 2 secs OR does 0 dmg but applies 1 stack of electrified to 6 of his allies in 8 m radius every 2 secs.

    Chain Lighting – new 32 points root skill. Costs 30 charge to cast. 1.5 sec cast time, no cd. Deals xxx dmg to the target and bounces to 3 other targets dealing 10 % less dmg after each bounce.

    Ice Prison – new skill. 1.5 sec cast time, 15 sec cd. Can only be cast if the target is affected by Hypothermia. Puts the target into a ice cube for 8 secs. Target becomes immune to all incoming dmg and effects but take xxx dmg every 2 secs.

    Shatter – new skill. 1.5 sec cast time, 15 sec cd. Can be cast only at the target affected by Ice Prison. Ice cube breaks into deadly shards dealing xxx dmg to 8 enemies in 10 m radius. Target gets 0 dmg.

    Cyclone – replaces Wind Chill. Ground placed AoE. Summons a powerful cyclone to targeted location that sucks in up to 4 enemies to it`s center and then shoots them to a random location in 20 m radius. Deals 0 dmg.

    Rainstorm – new 26 points root skill. Ground placed AoE with larger than usual radius. Lasts for 6 secs. Applies “Soaked” debuff that lasts for 15 secs. While this effect is active the enemy will receive 10 % more dmg from Air skills OR will have 50 % chance to get extra 1 stack of electrified each time it gets hit by adequate spell.
    5. Some additional new spell ideas:

    - a pulsing dot that applies electrify to surrounding targets just like Flame Rupture
    - a weak self heal - either a self buff (similar to Jolt) or a dmg spell with heal effect
    - old Sign of Asias type of skill, long cd, LF does not consume elec stacks for a brief period of time
    Last edited by Lokken`; 04-02-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I posted this in the first thread, but will put it back up. My suggestions for SC.

    New Ability: Shatter
    Toggle Buff
    While active, causes Ice Shear to explode on impact, spreading to up to 8 enemies.

    If the single target damage buff that Ice Shear gives is too big for AOE, this can be reduced as part of the toggle.

    Allow the Lightning Conductor ability to effect all Single target air/water spells. Better yet, combine Lightning Conductor and Frozen Defenses into one 5 point ability. (Go go SC/harb?)

    Please either greatly reduce the charge cost of Eye of the Storm or completely convert it to a mana consuming spell. So hard to keep up Static Flux with this ability.

    Buff the damage on Forked Lightning, and Lightning Arc. ESPECIALLY Lightning Arc.

    Reduce the cast time on Forked Lightning to 1 second to make pouring rain useful.

    Let Forked Lightning Build 2 stacks of electrified.

    Allow Lightning Burst to hit 8 targets.

    Last but not least: Either make Static Discharge a 1hr buff affecting only the mage, or buff its damage and allow it to be raid-wide.

    That's all I have right now, I'm sure I'll think of more.
    Last edited by Scuba Steve; 04-02-2013 at 02:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanlo View Post
    I mean, you didn't see Gandalf bunnyhopping through Mordor blasting away with instant cast spells.

  15. #15
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    *edit timer*

    Just thought of something, Thunderbolt would also benefit from Pouring Rain if it had a 1 second cast.

    You could also move Storm Shackle much lower in the Dominator tree, so it can be had for 15 points or less.
    Last edited by Scuba Steve; 04-02-2013 at 03:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanlo View Post
    I mean, you didn't see Gandalf bunnyhopping through Mordor blasting away with instant cast spells.

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