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Thread: Archon worth going 58 now?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser bheta's Avatar
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    Default Archon worth going 58 now?

    I was wondering if any of the number crunchers have an idea if going 58 archon is now worth it, with todays changes.

    I know its kind of early to be asking.

    I am my guilds main archon, on most fights i usually run 51/25pyro. Except on regulos.

    Thanks in advance for any comments and any insights.

    Here are the changes to Archon:

    ARCHON
    * Patron's Rage: Now refreshes Archon's Aura at the beginning of the channel.
    * Blood Pact: Now increases the maximum number of stacks of the Archon's Searing Vitality buff by 1-2.
    * Shared Vigor: Base values increased to match the values of comparable buffs in the same stacking group.
    * Empowered Aegis: Now increases the resistance bonus granted to you by Crumbling Resistance by 10-30%. Crumbling Resistance also increases your damage by 2-6%.
    * Arcane Aegis: Base values increased to match the values of comparable buffs in the same stacking group.
    * Archon's Bulwark: Now also increases damage dealt by 6% to match the changes to Empowered Aegis.
    P2W means that if I am not spending money, I can't get gear as good as you can get by buying it. If I can get better gear by other means, it's not P2W. ---the_real_seebs

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  2. #2
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    regardless of what people thought in the past 58-18p was always viable
    even moreso now
    people spend too much time looking at text and believing tooltips instead of live parsing
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 03-27-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Frailaq's Avatar
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    Nope. Effectively no change in Archon's Bulwark since both it and the other methods of obtaining the benefits of it were both boosted the same amount. 54 is still the highest Archon to use and some builds like the Harb variant still require you to only go up to 51 in order to get more points into the subsoul.
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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Only reason to go 58 is if you die every pull and are battle rezzed. If that happens then there's other areas you can improve on.
    Nope.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    I run 61 for the luxury of Point - Point. Glad to see these fixes.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

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  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Monkey View Post
    regardless of what people thought in the past 58-18p was always viable
    even moreso now
    people spend too much time looking at text and believing tooltips instead of live parsing
    Keep in mind the guy calling 58 point viable is from the same country that lost a war when their military considered standing in in a group in organized rows as a 'viable' tactic.

    Feel free to show 58 point archon parses that hold up to 51/25 variants.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser bheta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovack View Post
    Keep in mind the guy calling 58 point viable is from the same country that lost a war when their military considered standing in in a group in organized rows as a 'viable' tactic.

    Feel free to show 58 point archon parses that hold up to 51/25 variants.
    ok ill stick w/ 51/25 ty all
    P2W means that if I am not spending money, I can't get gear as good as you can get by buying it. If I can get better gear by other means, it's not P2W. ---the_real_seebs

    Don't like them, too bad. You don't get a special "Ban who you want!" card. ---Kralon

  8. #8
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovack View Post
    Keep in mind the guy calling 58 point viable is from the same country that lost a war when their military considered standing in in a group in organized rows as a 'viable' tactic.

    Feel free to show 58 point archon parses that hold up to 51/25 variants.
    grats on proving your ignorance extends beyond rift
    post a parse with your best archon spec and il beat it with a 58
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  9. #9
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    i run 61 so i dont have to burn a ton of GCDs on pointless stuff(mainly PS and LD) or duel before a pull.

    plus i get P2P for ****s and giggles.

    and im happy to sit on ~10k dps, depending on if im using illuminate.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    ok for reality sake il say what i meant
    it is viable and i do believe with practice the disparity between a 58 and a 51/54 is close enough to not worry unless youre deliberately trying to out dps the dps
    so close im willing to bet i can out dps or match another archon spec with it
    and no i dont use 58 specs btw i run 51/25 and yolo melee
    what you need to think about is can you be arsed dueling before raid, does you raid wipe a lot, if you dont duel for stacks how long is it before your raid actually starts benefiting from your archon buffs
    short specs are great for chain pulling, hell run melee ffs, but if youre here asking questions im willing to guess there will be some death involved in which case being able to get up and start doing your job, aka buffing the raid, not yourself, as soon as possible
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Yes 58 is worthwhile using. The people who believe it to be 'worthless' are also those same Archon's who seem to think they are dps instead of support and who furthermore force people to duel them before boss pulls so they can do the old 'pre-buff' ********.

    Your role as an Archon is to make sure your combat buffs are active, to keep people cleansed and enemies purged, to apply the necessary long duration debuffs, etc. Show me someone who is super pumped about his 1337 dps as harbinger and I'll show you someone who is slacking in the role he's actually supposed to be playing.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhue View Post
    Yes 58 is worthwhile using. The people who believe it to be 'worthless' are also those same Archon's who seem to think they are dps instead of support and who furthermore force people to duel them before boss pulls so they can do the old 'pre-buff' ********.

    Your role as an Archon is to make sure your combat buffs are active, to keep people cleansed and enemies purged, to apply the necessary long duration debuffs, etc. Show me someone who is super pumped about his 1337 dps as harbinger and I'll show you someone who is slacking in the role he's actually supposed to be playing.
    The thing is, maintaining Auras, keeping up Debuffs and performing Utility roles is very, very simple. The remaining 95% of the time all you do is maintain buffs and maximise DPS. Keeping up your buffs isn't just about spamming a 1 button macro, it's about interweaving them with higher DPS abilities for maximum effect.

    Frankly when people are talking about maximising Archon they aren't talking about bad players who should be focussing on all the things you mentioned. They're talking about the good Archons who can do all that stuff perfectly already and are trying to maximise their output.

    Saying Archon is all about Support and not DPS is like saying tanks shouldn't care about their DPS, or healers, it's just plain wrong. If you're a good player you can already do your primary job perfectly and should take every opportunity you have to improve your overall performance.

    TLDR: Archon DPS is very important, as long as you aren't a baddie who can't do your Utility roles at the same time.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 03-28-2013 at 02:34 AM.
    Nope.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Monkey View Post
    grats on proving your ignorance extends beyond rift
    post a parse with your best archon spec and il beat it with a 58
    GO ahead and post a parse with 58 and try to parse other spec, the best way to be usefull to this discussion is to post parse with your preference explainging your stuff / buffs whatever and we will compare with other parses.

    I will try posting parse with 58, 51/25 and Archonbinger and share my results when I have some time.
    Eldorine - Mage - tier 1 cleared [GA: 4/4 Wolrd first][IG 3/3 World 2nd][PB 4/5]

  14. #14
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    ya wanna compare a melee spec to a ranged one?
    the ignorance continues
    but go ahead
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 03-29-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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  15. #15
    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Monkey View Post
    grats on proving your ignorance extends beyond rift
    post a parse with your best archon spec and il beat it with a 58
    It was a joke;
    However, pointing out that using 58&61 point archon specs is a dps loss is not. Keep in mind when you're doing these parses you'll want to do so with a full raid status (ie: a bard with you). If you're soloing on a dummy.

    That said, there's a place for discussing 'skill association with net gain'. This could be viewed as a similar situation to comparisons between pyroharb and 61harb in which pyroharb, played perfectly, is a dps gain - but the difference in raid awareness, the difference in skill required, and the potential loss from making simple mistakes - creates a scenario in which the higher potential spec is very rarely worthwhile.

    Using that premise, I'm not exactly certain where the skill/practicality line for Archon will lie. I've done extensive testing in a formulaic sense (against dummies), however how much of that is lost in actual raid scenarios could vary substantially. I know that what little practical experience I have showed me that Archon/Harb builds that were fun and easy for 5/10-mans, were more complicated for 20-mans. Target switching in particular became an issue for me.

    So, I pose a very separate question to those with the most practical archon experience:
    What Archon specs do you use and where does it lie along the difficulty spectrum?

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