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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Kervik, I need this question answered

  1. #1
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Default Kervik, I need this question answered

    It's a simple question, but one that I have found annoying for far too long

    What is the justification for making Fireball, a 2.0 second cast time spell hit for lower amounts of damage than Shock Pulse, an instant cast ability? Pyromancer shouldn't require an Archon to work correctly, Fireball cast time needs to be lowered

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/ability/-43678548/Shock-Pulse

    And now

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/ability/94102432/Fireball

    Let's not forget about http://rift.magelo.com/en/ability/-27345355/Swift-Shot which routinely hits me for over 3000 and is also instant with a movement speed buff!

    bonus question! Why is Inquisitor better than Pyromancer (or really, any of our ranged specs) in virtually every aspect? For example

    http://www.rifthead.com/ability/2053902436/purge

    vs

    http://www.rifthead.com/ability/1673485448/consumption

    lol, 2 buff purge 12 points into the tree. The entire Inquisitor tree is pretty much a big middle finger to mages

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  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Berzz's Avatar
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    All of my frustrations in PvP are in this thread!

    Minus the GIANT beef I have with Glyphs of Power.

    +1. I am really confused as well kervik, Although I think this is more in need of a Daglar response. Kervik will do his best to make Pyro competitive in PvE, but i think dev's don't understand the horrible burden of a 2 second cast time contributing ~30-40% of an ideal PvE breakdown...and how it simply is not very viable in PvP.
    Last edited by Berzz; 03-24-2013 at 02:36 PM.

  3. #3
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    OP's name is quite relevant here.

    Don't try to compare 2 different abilities in a vaccuum. The only thing that matters is whether the spec works. If you think there is a problem there

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara Thedarkside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumelar View Post
    OP's name is quite relevant here.

    Don't try to compare 2 different abilities in a vaccuum. The only thing that matters is whether the spec works. If you think there is a problem there
    Both specs are similar though lol!!! Inquisitor like pyro is a ranged nuke soul. The only difference is inquis is better in ever aspect. Better cds better damage better buffs better healing. The inquis main nuke BoR is a 1.5sec cast time and hits for over 2 ****ing k in pvp while pyro's 2.0 sec cast spell hits for 980-1.1k. OH BUT WAIT THEIRS MORE http://rift.magelo.com/en/ability/-7...itual-Scrutiny BoJ is now insta cast and wait what it hits harder then fireball still?????? BoJ hits for 1k-1.3k and its instant cast. Who else is getting really ****ing sick of this game?

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumelar View Post
    OP's name is quite relevant here.

    Don't try to compare 2 different abilities in a vaccuum. The only thing that matters is whether the spec works. If you think there is a problem there
    You're making a point, but it probably doesn't help your view.
    Pyro doesn't work in any aspect of the game right now.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Belorian's Avatar
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    Completely agree, I'm forced to either Chloro or play Dominator in pvp as being a full dps is a waste of time anyway. Of course the exception is Harbinger which does fairly well but I rolled a mage for a reason, if I wanted to melee or be extremely dependant on it I would have rolled a warrior or a rogue. Give the mage its ranged nuke purpose back..
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Abilities in a vacuum are meaningless.

    I'm not saying Pyromancer doesn't need some work, but the cast time of Fireball isn't really the issue.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 03-24-2013 at 08:40 PM.
    Nope.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzz View Post
    All of my frustrations in PvP are in this thread!

    Minus the GIANT beef I have with Glyphs of Power.

    +1. I am really confused as well kervik, Although I think this is more in need of a Daglar response. Kervik will do his best to make Pyro competitive in PvE, but i think dev's don't understand the horrible burden of a 2 second cast time contributing ~30-40% of an ideal PvE breakdown...and how it simply is not very viable in PvP.
    I'm not sure why Pyro has been left out of the mobility department for so long. Yes there are skills you can use while moving but beause of GoP you instantly lose 15% dmg on said skills. Marksmen had this issue resolved ages ago, and more recently Inquisitor became vastly more mobile without a restriction as detrimental as GoP.

    If Pyro is to be the stand still nuker, then make the damage of its long cast time spells (mainly Fireball) worth the vulnerabilities that being stationary in PVP brings. If the total damage output or burst is considered OP then implement one of the following instead.

    Give Pyro a spammable instant which would be analogous to the Inquistors Bolt of Judgement + Spiritual Scrutiny. The damage of the instant should be about half that of Fireball. This would be done due to the effect of Spark on instant fire spells, halving the damage firstly to keep the DPS the same as Fireball. The spell would then be further weakened by not being able to apply Combust and as any other spell which is used while moving will not benefit from GoP. This should keep Fireball as the preferred skill for Pyro but with the ability to be mobile without the aid of long cooldowns in keeping with the Marksman and Inquisitor.

    Make Fireball be able to be cast while moving. It will not gain the benefit of GoP if movement occurs anytime after the spell has started casting. This will allow it to be self regulated as a lower damage skill in return for mobility again as seen with Inquisitor. It will however still be susceptible to interrupts unlike the Inquistors instant BoJ.

    Remove the crutch that is GoS and build the bonus into the soul as was done with Marksman thus making the limited amount of skills a Pyro can use while moving not receive a damage penalty. This will also make Pyro less hindered by purges which will benefit it in PVP.

    In essence it comes down to mobility vs damage. If Pyro is to be a nuker, give it the damage to nuke if not it needs better options for being able to deal damage while on the move to remain on par with other callings.
    Last edited by Wolfman2k11; 03-24-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Wildwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    but the cast time of Fireball isn't really the issue.
    It most certainly is a huge concern, for all the reasons Skreamo pointed out.

  10. #10
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    All of those concerns are totally legitamate.. but the biggest concern is this:

    Why is the calling with the worst mitigation and some of the worst DPS/mobility almost entirely dependent on range

    BUT HAS THE LOWEST RANGE.

    What because we have CC?

    What CC, You knock a warrior back with electrocute, he's still in plenty of range for all his abilities and if you bother to channel that spell you're going to be doing much lower DPS to him than he does to you as he's being knocked back.

    You cast thunder blast, Oh wait didn't they increase base run-speed (but didn't respectively increase the range on knockbacks and blinks?) thus meaning you yet again have wasted a GCD.

    Then there is the total reliance on CC that doesn't work half of the time.

    And the fact that, most of our AoE dps souls have a considerable build up time which applies dots which are completely cleansable, BUT WE STILL END UP WITH LOWER AOE DPS THAN A MARKSMAN SPAMMING HIS AOE ABILITES!

    And how come the developers "split the souls into their respective aoe/st counterparts" but marksman has better AoE dps than a warlock with better mobility and utility than a stormcaller/pyromancer, a purge, an aoe knockback that ignores immunities entirely and still has some great ST dps to boot.

    They completely messed mage's up with SL when they removed our ability to kite, escape and control.

    OH yeah, and deal any damage!
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  11. #11
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    To be fair I think 5/5 in ignition puts fireball at a 1.5s cast time. And then the 61pt ability can give fireball some burstiness even if that's not the most desirable build.
    Last edited by MonkeysUncle; 03-24-2013 at 11:58 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeysUncle View Post
    To be fair I think 5/5 in ignition puts fireball at a 1.5s cast time. And then the 61pt ability can give fireball some burstiness even if that's not the most desirable build.
    No, Fireball has a base cast time of 2.5s. Ignition puts it at 2 seconds. It can then be further reduced to 1.8s with an Archon present.
    Last edited by Wolfman2k11; 03-25-2013 at 12:10 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Vayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeysUncle View Post
    To be fair I think 5/5 in ignition puts fireball at a 1.5s cast time. And then the 61pt ability can give fireball some burstiness even if that's not the most desirable build.
    Nope, base cast time is 2.5s. The damage should really be at least 25% higher to justify that cast time. Or Aegis should give an extra fireball on every cast and/or allow it to crit.
    Last edited by Vayra; 03-25-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Frailaq's Avatar
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    Some of the ideas mentioned here are quite good.

    1) A spammable instant cast nuke along the same lines as Neural Prod - as Wolfman said, it should probably be about half the damage of Fireball, not apply combust, and not benefit from GoP but it would at least give us an instant spam.

    2) Make Fireball hit harder. It's a fairly long cast with a big benefit provided you can stand still long enough to cast it but right now it hits like a toddler.

    3) Make Withering Flames into a cone attack, allow movement while channeling, and raise the CD to 1.5 minutes with a talent to reduce it to 80/70/60 seconds. Fire Storm is great for what it does but sometimes you need options.

    4) Virulent had a fair point about the increased base run speed but lack of increase on pushback skills although I'm not sure that's a Pyro specific problem. I would definitely look into that, though, to see if the distance you get knocked back should be increased just a bit to compensate.
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  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Geopenguin's Avatar
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    plus two of our biggest hitters are channels that break on movement. both mm's and tempests can move during their channels.
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