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Thread: 3rd Healing Veil for Chloros

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara
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    Default 3rd Healing Veil for Chloros

    At the moment Chloromancers in PvP are the best AOE healers and good ST healers for a chosen target.

    But they have many weak spots. One of them is weak self healing from veils and the inability to heal other chloros (both full chloros and other souls with just a few points for LGV) through your veils. It`s quite a problem when you've got only chloros on your side (because there are no clerics or they all went dps) or you want to heal a target with LGV on that is being focus fired by the enemy. It`s really easy to kill a chloro carrier with focus fire if there aren't any clerics around. I can`t help him much. After I use my cds I`m left with spaming Natural Healing for an awesome 2500 heal with 1.5 cast time.

    As we all know they are not gonna allow veils to cross heal other chloros. I`m ok with that. I acknowledge the fact that this would cause some serious balance issues in PvE and PvP.

    So here is my idea that would solve those chloro's problems with zero impact on PvE and without making chloro OP in PvP. Well unless I`m blind and I`m missing some obvious things.

    Give chloromancers a 3rd healing veil that would only heal the mage and one chosen target. No other splash healing.

    The target of this new veil can have his LGV or LBV on. The healing from new veil would be higher than LGV but lower than LBV. VL, Ruin, CS and NT would provide more healing just like for LBV.

    In my opinion this new veil would be useful for:

    - self healing, when focus fired I could switch to the new veil and heal myself better at the expense of no AOE heals for my team, this would also increase my survivability in 1v1 situations

    - healing other chloros, again at the expense of no AOE heals I would be able to help FF'ed chloros

    - better self healing while doing ST heals, atm when I`m using LBV I`m very vulnerable, if the enemies switches from my synth target to me I`m in big trouble

    Balance issues:

    - this new veil would have no impact on PvE raiding, there is no risk of chloro stacking, it heals for less than LBV and gives no AOE healing

    - with new veil on I still would not be able to get heals from other chloros LGV or LBV. The question if I could get heals from other "new veils" is open for debate.

    - new veil would still do less heal that LBV so there is no risk of chloros becoming supreme pocket healers

    - usage of the new veil should be situational - for self healing, duo healing (when both targets take equal dmg) or healing FF'ed chloros, for normal AOE healing and ST healing other veil would be still superior

    - new veil should be a deep root talent, at least 51 pts to avoid some OP Harb/Chloro hybrids

    - if this new veil seems OP then maybe it should only heal one target - me or other ally (ofc also other chloros). In that case the heals from it should be higher but still lower than LBV.

    I think that this is a great idea and it would solve some of chloro's problems while making it a bit more difficult to play (juggling 3 veils) without making it OP. But like I said I might be missing something so please share your opinions.
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  2. #2
    Shadowlander VashtaNerada's Avatar
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    I keep wishing for that third veil since several months now, but I'm really afraid it would be way too OP to come true to be honest.

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    I'm pretty sure this won't happen since they have been pretty consistent about the idea that chloros can't heal other chloros. Seems to be an intended limitation of chloros based upon the dev responses I have seen.

    But I'll play along. I like this idea. Maybe call it Internal Veil. This is going to sound a bit cleric-ish but here is a way to implement it so it isn't too OP.

    How it could work:
    + First, running IV will cause you to not get any heals from LGV, LBV or the IV from another chloro.
    + Second, Let this veil act as a self heal with overheals directed to a specific target which we can call the IV Bag (I know this sounds a lot like a cleric ability whose ability name escapes me). I'm sure IV Bag is not the right name for the buff on the other person. Perhaps Interval Veil Boon or something like that?
    + Additionally, natural healing would become instant cast with a stronger heal on the IV or IV Bag but normal for everyone else.
    (not really sure about this part but hey, I'm just brainstorming)


    Limitations:
    - the chloro with IV should have reduced damage by some % (perhaps a big %) and non-life damage should not proc IV. This would go some distance towards balancing a chloro with IV just rampaging around killing people. Also in PVE this would mean this chloro is a liability since their DPS would be low and not really contributing towards beating enrage timers.
    - Also as mentioned earlier, the IV chloro would not be able to receive any veil heals and they could not also receive the IV Bag of another chloro.
    - Synthesis and IV Bag should be mutually exclusive. So if someone has Synthesis on, casting IV Bag on them would remove the synthesis (and vice versa). So chloros would not be able to dual heal a target using veils and IV.

    Proccing IV: it should proc from life spells only. I would word it similar to LBV in the sense that VL, NT and Corrosive Spores should have a bonus proc on the IV similar to how these spells will proc extra for the synth target of LBV.

    Some questions to ask: would this be op? how often would chloros be able to switch between LGV/LBV and IV? Where would this get inserted in the soul tree? Should IV Bag be limited to how it can be applied to clerics also? How big should the IV heals be on self in order to make the overheals splashing through IV Bag worth something?

    As far as the soul tree goes I would put this in three places. First, let IV be granted (without the overheal splash) at the same time as LBV as a root ability. Second, let IV Bag be a 51 point root ability along with Void life (remember no splash overheal except through IV Bag). Third, reword Natural Fusion to include the statement "Your IV Bag increase heals from IV by 5/10/15%".

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellwhat View Post
    I'm pretty sure this won't happen since they have been pretty consistent about the idea that chloros can't heal other chloros. Seems to be an intended limitation of chloros based upon the dev responses I have seen.
    There is a difference between healing other chloros while still doing healing to others via LGV or LBV and healing other chloros via the new veil while doing zero healing to other targets. Atm I can heal them by using my normal heals but after I use my cds I`m left with weak NH. I`d like to be able to heal myself and/or another chloro for less than LBV and at the expense of doing zero AOE heals. That is not OP in my opinion and will not promote chloro stacking.

    I like your idea too but it`s a bit too focused on self heals. I`d like to have a reliable heal on other targets via the new veil. Internal Veil is a nice name
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    They were just some thoughts. I'm trying to ere on the side of self heals in my ideas since many have the knee jerk reaction that chloros healing chloros must only be possible in an OP sort of way.

    The IV and IV Bag idea could easily be arranged so that it is not so self healing centered. Simply make it so the IV and IV Bag recipient are healed by the same amount. Or make it so that the IV Bag gets more heals than self (rather than the overheal idea). Either way, the IV chloro should do reduced damage since they are doing more concentrated heals on a self/target.

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    Rift Chaser parangea's Avatar
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    hmm, i like the idea. would improve chloro QoL in pvp, while not affecting pve. in fact the way i see it, it has zero place in pve, which is fine.

    i don't like the idea of making it a low investment skill, just like lokken said, harb/chloro builds are allready very strong, and they might just become truly OP with that veil so low in the root or tree.

    we have synthesis, and this veil would need a new "synthesis", casting the "new synth" would erase the current synth. i also think the new veil would need to be on the same CD as other veils, with the same length.
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    Shadowlander VashtaNerada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parangea View Post
    hmm, i like the idea. would improve chloro QoL in pvp, while not affecting pve. in fact the way i see it, it has zero place in pve, which is fine.
    I actually see some use in PVE aswell. Everytime the chloro will be targeted by some high spike dmg that can't be solo healed or prevented, and the other healers in the raid go "wat is healing", forgetting two chloros cant heal each others, veildance to your internal veil and tada, you can actually try to save yourself in another way than a slow ST healing.
    Last edited by VashtaNerada; 03-19-2013 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    If they do give you this veil, wouldn't it make your casted abilities completely useless?


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    If they do give you this veil, wouldn't it make your casted abilities completely useless?
    You mean casted heals ? Well in some situations, yes. That was the point actually.

    At the moment I`m able to self-heal or heal other chloros with my casted heals. But after using the good ones (ES, Bloom) I`m left with NH and HT (which is very good but has a cd and 2s cast time). Its hard to save myself or other chloro with just those heals. The new veil would help in those situations by providing better heals for me and other chloros at the expense of doing no AOE healing.

    Casted heals would still be useful in all other situations.

    Also I think that it might be fair to add a penalty to the new veil and decrease my dmg by 15-20 % while I`m using it so chloro won`t become OP in 1v1.
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  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    They really could have just made Symbiosis a "link" you put on another person(with out a duration or cooldown) that gives Synth level healing to that one target and something like 30% of that healing back to the mage. Symbiosis, as a reference to the word*, makes a lot more sense in that regard, but I do like our current Symbiosis cooldown and it would be a shame to get rid of it.

    *the living together of two dissimilar organisms, as in mutualism, commensalism, amensalism, or parasitism.
    *any interdependent or mutually beneficial relationship between two persons, groups, etc.
    * http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/symbiosis?s=t

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser bheta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellwhat View Post
    I'm pretty sure this won't happen since they have been pretty consistent about the idea that chloros can't heal other chloros. Seems to be an intended limitation of chloros based upon the dev responses I have seen.

    But I'll play along. I like this idea. Maybe call it Internal Veil. This is going to sound a bit cleric-ish but here is a way to implement it so it isn't too OP.

    How it could work:
    + First, running IV will cause you to not get any heals from LGV, LBV or the IV from another chloro.
    + Second, Let this veil act as a self heal with overheals directed to a specific target which we can call the IV Bag (I know this sounds a lot like a cleric ability whose ability name escapes me). I'm sure IV Bag is not the right name for the buff on the other person. Perhaps Interval Veil Boon or something like that?
    + Additionally, natural healing would become instant cast with a stronger heal on the IV or IV Bag but normal for everyone else.
    (not really sure about this part but hey, I'm just brainstorming)


    Limitations:
    - the chloro with IV should have reduced damage by some % (perhaps a big %) and non-life damage should not proc IV. This would go some distance towards balancing a chloro with IV just rampaging around killing people. Also in PVE this would mean this chloro is a liability since their DPS would be low and not really contributing towards beating enrage timers.
    - Also as mentioned earlier, the IV chloro would not be able to receive any veil heals and they could not also receive the IV Bag of another chloro.
    - Synthesis and IV Bag should be mutually exclusive. So if someone has Synthesis on, casting IV Bag on them would remove the synthesis (and vice versa). So chloros would not be able to dual heal a target using veils and IV.

    Proccing IV: it should proc from life spells only. I would word it similar to LBV in the sense that VL, NT and Corrosive Spores should have a bonus proc on the IV similar to how these spells will proc extra for the synth target of LBV.

    Some questions to ask: would this be op? how often would chloros be able to switch between LGV/LBV and IV? Where would this get inserted in the soul tree? Should IV Bag be limited to how it can be applied to clerics also? How big should the IV heals be on self in order to make the overheals splashing through IV Bag worth something?

    As far as the soul tree goes I would put this in three places. First, let IV be granted (without the overheal splash) at the same time as LBV as a root ability. Second, let IV Bag be a 51 point root ability along with Void life (remember no splash overheal except through IV Bag). Third, reword Natural Fusion to include the statement "Your IV Bag increase heals from IV by 5/10/15%".

    sounds really good, you have put alot of thought into it. I never pvp, i just farmed my ridge runners to revered and if we did not have a cleric we would lose, i went chloro for 99% of the fights. it was good for aoe but if there were no clerics, as i said we would lose.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    At the moment Chloromancers in PvP are the best AOE healers and good ST healers for a chosen target.

    But they have many weak spots. One of them is weak self healing from veils and the inability to heal other chloros
    I stopped reading here. It's called balance
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  13. #13
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    Default If it ain't broke...

    ...don't fix it.

    The chloro is the most versatile healer in PvP. Without changing specs I can go from being an invaluable AoE healer to an excellent ST healer (whether it be through Synthesis or via direct healing spells).

    Natural Healing receives little love. It will not impress Sentinels, but it is a decent spammable heal with a low cast time. It won't outpace damage unless you are lucky enough to be healing against bad DPS, but it does buy time to get CDs back up or allow your target to escape/kill the enemy, and contributes well to PvP. I have enough screenshots of myself leading the healers' board with less than 10k damage done, so I am not talking out of my *** here.

    I wouldn't mind seeing chloro survivability increase. However, having jumped on my Warden just a few days ago, I no longer have any complaints about the current state of the chloro. I'd rather see this soul left as is than accidentally overpower it and tempt a future nerf.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    If it ain't broke...
    But it is...
    ... hence this thread.

  15. #15
    General of Telara Ardor's Avatar
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    Sure, as long as the healing output is exactly the same as clerics' Salvation + Righteous Mandate.

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