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Thread: Target switching, Flame Sigil HAS to go

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovack View Post
    Devs said so.
    Is this really truth? Have the developers actually stated that they thing melee should do more dps? If thats the case they are obviously as bad as developing this game as keeping it bug.free! I really like rift, the only thing that have annoyed me this far is the amountof bugs in it! But as I liked the game so much I have been able to look past that!
    BUT if it really is like you say, Im afraid I have to stop playing Rift because I will NEVER play a game where the developers, for some strange reason, are favoring one or the other. The reason to that is that would be/is really really bad design choise!

    I hope you are wrong with what you say and if your not, I have just one thing to say...Im out!

  2. #107
    Plane Touched Knulen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
    Is this really truth? Have the developers actually stated that they thing melee should do more dps? If thats the case they are obviously as bad as developing this game as keeping it bug.free! I really like rift, the only thing that have annoyed me this far is the amountof bugs in it! But as I liked the game so much I have been able to look past that!
    BUT if it really is like you say, Im afraid I have to stop playing Rift because I will NEVER play a game where the developers, for some strange reason, are favoring one or the other. The reason to that is that would be/is really really bad design choise!

    I hope you are wrong with what you say and if your not, I have just one thing to say...Im out!
    Melee will come out on top as long as they can stay on target. If they disconnect from the boss they begin to drop. How is that even remotely "bad design"? If they where on par in DPS, why would any1 in their right mind play melee?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    But the bads are the majority and this needs to work in our favor because there's a lot of us.


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  3. #108
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knulen View Post
    Melee will come out on top as long as they can stay on target. If they disconnect from the boss they begin to drop. How is that even remotely "bad design"? If they where on par in DPS, why would any1 in their right mind play melee?
    This. There must be variations in strength depending on the flexibility of a spec. If a spec can do more AoE than another, its ST should be weaker or everyone would play it. If a spec can deal with movement better than another, its ST should be weaker or everyone would play it. If a spec has to avoid cleaves, move with the boss whenever the tank repositions, run out of boss-centric AoEs, and run to switch targets, its ST should be stronger or nobody would play it.

    Every type of spec has its strength, and those that are weaker in ST (such as ranged or AoE specs) are still stronger in certain fights, depending on raid makeup. The strongest ST specs with the lowest flexibility are also stronger in other fights than the more flexible ones, for instance when nobody has to move. Overall the goal is to make sure every spec is strongest in something so there is no ultimately superior spec.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 01-08-2013 at 11:31 AM.

  4. #109
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noge View Post
    Who in gods name plays warlock in 20 man PvE?
    I do, It's a very good spec on certain fights

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  5. #110
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knulen View Post
    Melee will come out on top as long as they can stay on target. If they disconnect from the boss they begin to drop. How is that even remotely "bad design"? If they where on par in DPS, why would any1 in their right mind play melee?
    That's not necessarily true regarding all the content right now. For example, there's disconnects on the Goloch fight, however if you use 61 harb and just hit phantom blades for every disconnect, you can maintain melee dps the entire fight and pull between 16-17k easily. That's way ahead of our ranged specs, and there's alot of disconnects in that fight, and 61 harb isn't even our best melee build by a longshot
    Last edited by lol r u mad; 01-08-2013 at 12:40 PM.

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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knulen View Post
    Melee will come out on top as long as they can stay on target. If they disconnect from the boss they begin to drop. How is that even remotely "bad design"? If they where on par in DPS, why would any1 in their right mind play melee?
    Arnt there mechanics that makes Mages "disconnect"? Like f.e Mage needs to move out of raid damage and therefor has to stop casting a spell midcast and by that losing dps time or maybe even makes important stuff like f.e Combust falling off!?
    Mages are worthless at target switiching are Melee that as well? Is that why melee should do more damage?
    In fights where a Pyromancer has to move alot to avoid damage, how does that rhyme with the fact that melee "should" do more dps because in some fights melee might "disconnect"?

    And yes its bad design because they try to avoid having to balance the classes by simply saying "Melee should do more damage because they might be unfavored in some of the encounters!"
    Aka as long as melee can connect they will always be on top and when they cannot ranged will be on top. By design like this they are taking the easy way out, knowing it wont be as much effort to actually balance the classes.

    Instead of like WoW:s developers who are actually trying to balance the classes while at the same time having just as many "obstacles" for ranged as for melee to handle.

    Ive been raiding hardcore/semi hardcore for 8 years straight in WoW. I finaly got tired of it. Rift is the first mmorpg other then WoW that really caught my interest. I couldnt imagine going back to WoW now, I just like Rift too much.

    As a whole Rift is a more fun game to me and I really enjoy it. I enjoy it enough to care about what direction developers are taking it! And as I always been into raiding I also care alot about the design choises that involves raiding. And to me personaly, in this case , I dont agree with how they have desided to handle "balance" between classes.

    Also when it comes to boss encounters and raiding as a whole, WoW is still lighyears ahead with bugfree raiding environments and great, interesting boss mechanics that outclasses Rifts raiding by far.
    That being said, again, I enjoy Rift more as a whole but in some areas Rift still has alot to learn and a long way to go. I know Rift is only a young game so time speaks for it
    Last edited by Pertinax; 01-08-2013 at 12:59 PM.

  7. #112
    Plane Touched Knulen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol r u mad View Post
    That's not necessarily true regarding all the content right now. For example, there's disconnects on the Goloch fight, however if you use 61 harb and just hit phantom blades for every disconnect, you can maintain melee dps the entire fight and pull between 16-17k easily. That's way ahead of our ranged specs, and there's alot of disconnects in that fight, and 61 harb isn't even our best melee build by a longshot
    I realise that, but it was a simplification to point out the thought with melee specs being ahead of range specs in DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
    Arnt there mechanics that makes Mages "disconnect"? Like f.e Mage needs to move out of raid damage and therefor has to stop casting a spell midcast and by that losing dps time or maybe even makes important stuff like f.e Combust falling off!?
    Mages are worthless at target switiching are Melee that as well? Is that why melee should do more damage?
    In fights where a Pyromancer has to move alot to avoid damage, how does that rhyme with the fact that melee "should" do more dps because in some fights melee might "disconnect"?

    And yes its bad design because they try to avoid having to balance the classes by simply saying "Melee should do more damage because they might be unfavored in some of the encounters!"
    Aka as long as melee can connect they will always be on top and when they cannot ranged will be on top. By design like this they are taking the easy way out, knowing it wont be as much effort to actually balance the classes.

    Instead of like WoW:s developers who are actually trying to balance the classes while at the same time having just as many "obstacles" for ranged as for melee to handle.

    Ive been raiding hardcore/semi hardcore for 8 years straight in WoW. I finaly got tired of it. Rift is the first mmorpg other then WoW that really caught my interest. I couldnt imagine going back to WoW now, I just like Rift too much.

    As a whole Rift is a more fun game to me and I really enjoy it. I enjoy it enough to care about what direction developers are taking it! And as I always been into raiding I also care alot about the design choises that involves raiding. And to me personaly, in this case , I dont agree with how they have desided to handle "balance" between classes.

    Also when it comes to boss encounters and raiding as a whole, WoW is still lighyears ahead with bugfree raiding environments and great, interesting boss mechanics that outclasses Rifts raiding by far.
    That being said, again, I enjoy Rift more as a whole but in some areas Rift still has alot to learn and a long way to go. I know Rift is only a young game so time speaks for it
    All specs have perks aswell as drawbacks. If it is a movement heavy fight you should'nt be playing Pyro in the first place.

    Its not about avoiding to balance the classes. Its about giving players an incentive to go melee. If it does the same damage under the same condition, why would you go melee?

    It has been stated numerous times that the aim was to make melee DPS slightly above ranged. This is not news. But by all means, if you dont want to go melee, dont go melee.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    But the bads are the majority and this needs to work in our favor because there's a lot of us.


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  8. #113
    Rift Chaser tteen6789's Avatar
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    A good inquisitor can pull 15k-17k. Warrior RB is 15k on dummy. Rogue SAB spec is 14.5k on dummy. So Mage has to battle for 3rd spot in dps. And we have a more difficult rotation compared to other classes yet we get **** for rewards

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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by tteen6789 View Post
    A good inquisitor can pull 15k-17k. Warrior RB is 15k on dummy. Rogue SAB spec is 14.5k on dummy. So Mage has to battle for 3rd spot in dps. And we have a more difficult rotation compared to other classes yet we get **** for rewards
    You are wrong, that's all. If you get beaten by inquisitors you are just really bad, sorry.

  10. #115
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaitiing View Post
    You are wrong, that's all. If you get beaten by inquisitors you are just really bad, sorry.
    He's actually right about Sab and RB, but inquis can only burst that much, not sustain it. Shaman can pull higher than Inquis though on any fight if played right so the claims are not out of the realm of possibility.
    Last edited by lol r u mad; 01-08-2013 at 02:45 PM.

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  11. #116
    Champion Noge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol r u mad View Post
    I do, It's a very good spec on certain fights


    In that case you are bad and can't move, dps, or target swap effectively, Oh wait.. that's what this thread is about

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol r u mad View Post
    He's actually right about Sab and RB, but inquis can only burst that much, not sustain it. Shaman can pull higher than Inquis though on any fight if played right so the claims are not out of the realm of possibility.
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. No Shaman or inquisitor beat a good pyrobringer, and i never mentioned anything about Sab or RB

  13. #118
    Champion Noge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol r u mad View Post
    He's actually right about Sab and RB, but inquis can only burst that much, not sustain it. Shaman can pull higher than Inquis though on any fight if played right so the claims are not out of the realm of possibility.


    Are you even reading other peoples posts? or just trying to sound clever by correcting people on things they haven't said?

  14. #119
    Rift Disciple Silus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tteen6789 View Post
    A good inquisitor can pull 15k-17k. Warrior RB is 15k on dummy. Rogue SAB spec is 14.5k on dummy. So Mage has to battle for 3rd spot in dps. And we have a more difficult rotation compared to other classes yet we get **** for rewards
    I really don't want to give this thread too much attention, since it's devolved to so much back 'n forth hateposting, but you're aware that warriors are broken atm and so is the ranger/sab build, right? You're comparing an intended build with one that's not intended.

    Also Screamo, you're aware there is a damage boost mechanic on Goloch a la Sicaron, right? Comparing a parse on that fight is just silly.

    Also Pertinax, I worded it poorly admittedly, but I didn't say that pyrobinger (god, I hate that name) was the big nuke spec. I was implying that 61 pyro is. The rest of your rageposting is somewhat illegible and in many cases, wrong. I never said you should shut up and be happy with melee being our best spec, but the Devs HAVE stated that melee should be ahead of ranged in a stand-still dps competition, and they generally do a good job of sticking to that. As well, there are several builds that are ranged that are viable and either comparable or beyond those of other classes, just not as good as our melee, which is intended by intelligent design.
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  15. #120
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    Bam in this b*tch.
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