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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Vile Spores DoT from Nature's Corrosion ticks too late to heal

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Pacifyer's Avatar
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    Default Vile Spores DoT from Nature's Corrosion ticks too late to heal

    It was mentioned earlier in several threads but I would like to bring Kervick's attention to this issue.
    In raid environment when effected by Burning Purpose (and probably Surging Flare not sure if BP is enough) if you spam Vile Spores (which seems almost the only way to AOE heal now) the next spell cast reaches target faster than the DoT from Nature's Corrosion occurs so we actually lose the additional healing.

    I am asking you Kervik to revert the 6 sec DoT duration to 3 secs with ticks coming each second. Or just make it tick every second for less amount (we both know the damage value doesn't matter). This would provide more streamed healing which is required from Chloros without 2 sec gaps as it is now.

    Ofcourse the workaround for now is casting Void Life in between Vile Spores but is it worth it?
    You should give the power to one who doesn't want to use it
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  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Deeew's Avatar
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    It is not a huge issue, if you are around 15-20 meters from the mob, you can still spam vile spores and it will land just after the first dot tick. The only time this dot clipping would be an issue is if you are very close to the mob. I think the soul has bigger issues for him to spend his time on trying to fix than this. That's just my opinion.

    - Deew
    Last edited by Deeew; 10-22-2012 at 01:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boodie View Post
    It is not a huge issue, if you are around 15-20 meters from the mob, you can still spam vile spores and it will land just after the first dot tick.
    No you can't. 2 seconds cast time doesn't change if you stand further away from the mob. It will still be 2 seconds before each Vile Spores is released from your character and starts heading to the mob. At melee range, travel time will be instant and you have 2s before your next Vile Spores hits the mob. When chain casting from 35m, Vile Spores will still be hitting the mob in 2 second windows apart. Example: Go play on Maelforge who has like 60meter travel time...

    The only time this dot clipping would be an issue is if you are very close to the mob. I think the soul has bigger issues for him to spend his time on trying to fix than this. That's just my opinion.

    - Deew
    Given that this DoT tick has provided 30% additional healing on our main aoe healing ability spam in the past, and that any good player will have their spam rotation revolve around gaining these ticks, combined the fact that Nature's Corrosion also being practically one of the few remaining talents which actually synergises well with increasing your healing output in a mechanical way, I think it is a big issue.

    For some reason I don't really think it was intended that we end up using this kind of macro to best spam our Vile Spores...

    #show Vile Spores
    suppressmacrofailures
    macrowait 0.35
    cast Vile Spores
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    I figured this out yesterday and posted about it, glad to see other's are taking it up. As much as Vile Spores spam is not the most fun thing to do, having to mess about with Void Life trying not to clip a spell that lowers our healing anyway that we're only casting because cast speed increases decrease our HPS is a bizarre and unsatisfactory situation to be in.

    So yeah, 3s DoT ticking each second would be perfect, thanks.
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    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    because cast speed increases decrease our HPS
    I don't think this is how it works. I'm pretty sure I read that the healing value of cast time spells will not decrease if you have cast time buffs like Burning Purpose, Surging Flare or Ignition boosting your cast time. You should still gain the same healing but with less cast time.

    Could be wrong though, not extensively tested it.
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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    It'd be nice, too, if there was more to raid healing than spamming Vile Spores.

    And cast time reductions reducing heal output is a fallacy.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 10-22-2012 at 02:14 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    I don't think this is how it works. I'm pretty sure I read that the healing value of cast time spells will not decrease if you have cast time buffs like Burning Purpose, Surging Flare or Ignition boosting your cast time. You should still gain the same healing but with less cast time.

    Could be wrong though, not extensively tested it.
    No no, I don't mean that our healing is less because our casts are shorter, I mean that we lose healing because Vile Spores overwrites it's DoT before it can tick and heal and so we're forced to use lower HPS alternatives, and the end result is lower healing.

    Am I making sense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    No no, I don't mean that our healing is less because our casts are shorter, I mean that we lose healing because Vile Spores overwrites it's DoT before it can tick and heal and so we're forced to use lower HPS alternatives, and the end result is lower healing.

    Am I making sense?
    Ah yeah sorry I misunderstood.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    No no, I don't mean that our healing is less because our casts are shorter, I mean that we lose healing because Vile Spores overwrites it's DoT before it can tick and heal and so we're forced to use lower HPS alternatives, and the end result is lower healing.

    Am I making sense?
    Actually it isn't lower. Did some quick tests to prove it with numbers.

    A basic Rotation for raidheal (assuming I skilled Ignition and got Burning Purpose Buff).
    Tested with 2400 SP (No buffs just forced Natural Awareness proc before Tests)

    A: Voidlife spam 630 hps

    B: Vile Spores spam: 1400hp / 1,7 sec = 823 HPS

    C: VS - > WV -> VS - > WV
    Dot ticks and we get 1 Veiltick + 2 HoT-Ticks from WV => 1400hp+650hp+600hp+300hp+300hp=3250hp
    3250hp / (1,7+1,5) = 1015 hps

    D: VS - > WV -> VS - > NT

    Basically like c but after the second VS we have 2 Stacks of BoL so NT Casttime is lower than the GCD.
    WV gets some free more HOT-ticks before refreshing it.

    Heal: 2050x2 + 600 + (4x300) + 2100 = 8000
    8000hp / (1,7+1,5+1,7+1,5) = 1250 hps

    E: even VS+Dot would be lower HPS (2050/1,7)=1203 hps

    So the highest HPS would be: VS - > WV -> VS - > NT
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  10. #10
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    Damn edit timer


    EDIT: You may be right if we use WV without clipping it:

    WV then 9 x VS
    16,8 secs
    2050x9 + 600 + 9 x 300 = 21750

    => 1294 hps

    WV got real strong. if not clipped it heals for 3300 per GCD in my example. And since 2700hp of it are from the Hot ticks it can heal other Chloros with Veil up. If more than 1 target is up make sure all target have WV on it (As long as they live long enough to be worth to cast on).

    But i am happy with Nature's Corrosion as it is. I dont want to be VS spamming like a bot.
    Last edited by chaozd; 10-22-2012 at 07:30 AM.
    Ceoni <Seo a niS> , Brutwacht

  11. #11
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    That's assuming everyone is always within 15 metres of the target, which is unlikely. Veils have a 35 metre range. Either way you're clipping a DOT to maximise your healing; having Withering weaved into a healing "rotation" sounds quite silly conceptually.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaozd View Post
    Actually it isn't lower. Did some quick tests to prove it with numbers.

    A basic Rotation for raidheal (assuming I skilled Ignition and got Burning Purpose Buff).
    Tested with 2400 SP (No buffs just forced Natural Awareness proc before Tests)

    A: Voidlife spam 630 hps

    B: Vile Spores spam: 1400hp / 1,7 sec = 823 HPS

    C: VS - > WV -> VS - > WV
    Dot ticks and we get 1 Veiltick + 2 HoT-Ticks from WV => 1400hp+650hp+600hp+300hp+300hp=3250hp
    3250hp / (1,7+1,5) = 1015 hps

    D: VS - > WV -> VS - > NT

    Basically like c but after the second VS we have 2 Stacks of BoL so NT Casttime is lower than the GCD.
    WV gets some free more HOT-ticks before refreshing it.

    Heal: 2050x2 + 600 + (4x300) + 2100 = 8000
    8000hp / (1,7+1,5+1,7+1,5) = 1250 hps

    E: even VS+Dot would be lower HPS (2050/1,7)=1203 hps

    So the highest HPS would be: VS - > WV -> VS - > NT
    Except NT isn't instant after 2 VS. It takes 5. I was raid heals last night and pretty much kept WV up, while alternating VS and VL, and casting NT when I had 5 stacks of boon of life. Did 3300 HPS on Ituziel (only two ID relics, pvp weapon, pvp trinket, ID ring/neck, rest HK stuff).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    That's assuming everyone is always within 15 metres of the target, which is unlikely. Veils have a 35 metre range. Either way you're clipping a DOT to maximise your healing; having Withering weaved into a healing "rotation" sounds quite silly conceptually.
    Even if not all are in range of the WV ticks its probably the best choice to fill those gaps between VS casts.
    You still get the Veiltick for WV and melees/Tanks should be in Range of WV.

    I just noticed a flaw in the vs-wv-vs-nt rotation. Because of the Traveltime of VS its not possible to cast NT right afterd VS. The Cast starts with only 1 boon buff but consumes 2


    Quote Originally Posted by Pricia View Post
    Except NT isn't instant after 2 VS. It takes 5. I was raid heals last night and pretty much kept WV up, while alternating VS and VL, and casting NT when I had 5 stacks of boon of life. Did 3300 HPS on Ituziel (only two ID relics, pvp weapon, pvp trinket, ID ring/neck, rest HK stuff).
    You dont need NT to be instant. Just lower than the GCD. Theoretically you just need 2 x 0,5 secs.
    Last edited by chaozd; 10-22-2012 at 08:42 AM.
    Ceoni <Seo a niS> , Brutwacht

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Deeew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    No you can't. 2 seconds cast time doesn't change if you stand further away from the mob. It will still be 2 seconds before each Vile Spores is released from your character and starts heading to the mob. At melee range, travel time will be instant and you have 2s before your next Vile Spores hits the mob. When chain casting from 35m, Vile Spores will still be hitting the mob in 2 second windows apart. Example: Go play on Maelforge who has like 60meter travel time...


    Given that this DoT tick has provided 30% additional healing on our main aoe healing ability spam in the past, and that any good player will have their spam rotation revolve around gaining these ticks, combined the fact that Nature's Corrosion also being practically one of the few remaining talents which actually synergises well with increasing your healing output in a mechanical way, I think it is a big issue.

    For some reason I don't really think it was intended that we end up using this kind of macro to best spam our Vile Spores...

    #show Vile Spores
    suppressmacrofailures
    macrowait 0.35
    cast Vile Spores

    I chain cast vile spores, I'm 20 meter away, i see as the 2nd vile spores is traveling to the mob, the 1st vile spore dot has tick'd. I don't know what I am doing special that you are not, but I most defiantly get my 1st dot tick while standing 20 meter away and spam casting vile spores.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boodie View Post
    I chain cast vile spores, I'm 20 meter away, i see as the 2nd vile spores is traveling to the mob, the 1st vile spore dot has tick'd. I don't know what I am doing special that you are not, but I most defiantly get my 1st dot tick while standing 20 meter away and spam casting vile spores.
    Both abilities have the same travel time so your distance to the mob is irrelevant. Are you using Burning Purpose and Surging Flare archon buffs as well as 5/5 Ignite from Pyro?

    And it is spelled "definitely".
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 10-22-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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