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Thread: Problem with Mage's AOE Dps

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    Plane Walker Samfortal's Avatar
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    Default Problem with Mage's AOE Dps

    Hi guys, this is my AOE dps at 3 dummies.

    Full stormcaller: 6600
    Full Pyromance: 2200
    Full Elementalist 2800

    This is a huge difference. I like to play using elementalist build, but to run a dungeum or any stuff with lot of mobs, my build will not supply well like dps assistent. So my guild will not accept me to raids, i could be kicked in t2 and... enough.

    If i like that build, why i cant play on my way? Why i should leave full pyromancer or full Elementalits to Full Stormcaller to do aoe dmg? I cant agree with it.

    Can u imagine this? trash mobs > Stormcaller > boss > Pyromancer (whatever) > trash mobs > stormcaller > Boss, etc...

    I hope they fix it. It is so easy to fix. They dont need to make all equal, just more balanced. Is Stormcaller do 6600, let other builds do 60% of this at least. Ty,
    Rift 2.6's - Things I miss a lot in Rift: 1. No lock raids or boss, only lock drops and tokens. 2. I want a button to visit to other servers more easily. 3. Too low FPS yet. Fix Rift Client please. 4. Fair PVP, too much unbalance and crap healing war.
    - Thinks i like most right now: 1. Hailol Footholds 2. Flexible builds 3. Mage tanking comming .

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Malamor's Avatar
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    Why bother fixing it..in a few weeks the level cap will be 60 and it won't matter.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Just play Stormcaller, the ST isn't great but it's not absolutely atrocious. If you're going to play the two top single-target builds you can't expect to get great (or even "good") AOE. There has to be a trade-off.

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    Plane Walker Matsu's Avatar
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    There's nothing to fix, as this is intentional. If you're in danger of losing a raid spot because you have to swap specs between trash and the boss, then I would suggest finding a guild that isn't run by a group of *****.

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    Plane Walker Samfortal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Just play Stormcaller, the ST isn't great but it's not absolutely atrocious. If you're going to play the two top single-target builds you can't expect to get great (or even "good") AOE. There has to be a trade-off.
    I DONT want to change my build. I like to play with elementalist because of pet. I know the builds arent for all situations, Im just asking to reduce that gap of aoe dps.
    Rift 2.6's - Things I miss a lot in Rift: 1. No lock raids or boss, only lock drops and tokens. 2. I want a button to visit to other servers more easily. 3. Too low FPS yet. Fix Rift Client please. 4. Fair PVP, too much unbalance and crap healing war.
    - Thinks i like most right now: 1. Hailol Footholds 2. Flexible builds 3. Mage tanking comming .

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Now that the NDA is off: 40+ SC / 22+ Harbinger / 8- Ele has great AoE and very respectable single-target damage. The only two downsides are: (a) the single target rotation is very mana intensive; (b) since every ST spell is or becomes instant, it will not scale as well as pyro in a raid environment.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Alternatively, if you like pets, you could try a Necro/Warlock hybrid or Ele/SC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Just play Stormcaller, the ST isn't great but it's not absolutely atrocious. If you're going to play the two top single-target builds you can't expect to get great (or even "good") AOE. There has to be a trade-off.
    the problem is the fights designed with aoe elements. Like laethys or akylios.

    and its not just the mage "single target tree aoe", its everyones, except maybe warriors.

    We have to run people specced for aoe to make it past the aoe phases in a reasonable manner, which in itself isnt an issue, but say for akylios, that means you shine for the first ~6 minutes and spend 14 minutes doing jack squat if you got the aoe role.

    If everyone in your raid is single target specced and spams aoe the entire fight, youll end up killing NONE of the adds on Jornaru before the island hop. That's absurd.

    And the aoe specs are pretty far behind on single target(at the moment), it wouldnt bother me if you had a single target spec that was weaker at aoe(like we used to with the old firestorm) and an aoe spec thats weaker at single target(like the old pyro/SC), but the gap between them is just so dumb right now. like SC does ~2400 single target or so, and pyro is BETTER OFF SINGLE TARGETING THAN EVER USING ITS AOE.
    Last edited by Caldern; 10-29-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    the problem is the fights designed with aoe elements. Like laethys or akylios.

    and its not just the mage "single target tree aoe", its everyones, except maybe warriors.

    We have to run people specced for aoe to make it past the aoe phases in a reasonable manner, which in itself isnt an issue, but say for akylios, that means you shine for the first ~6 minutes and spend 14 minutes doing jack squat if you got the aoe role.

    If everyone in your raid is single target specced and spams aoe the entire fight, youll end up killing NONE of the adds on Jornaru before the island hop. That's absurd.

    And the aoe specs are pretty far behind on single target(at the moment), it wouldnt bother me if you had a single target spec that was weaker at aoe(like we used to with the old firestorm) and an aoe spec thats weaker at single target(like the old pyro/SC), but the gap between them is just so dumb right now. like SC does ~2400 single target or so, and pyro is BETTER OFF SINGLE TARGETING THAN EVER USING ITS AOE.
    It's not really absurd. Its to make you use more strategy in raid composition than just everyone go in your best ST specs and have plenty of AoE for any kind of AoE DPS requirement, thats boring...especially when an AoE attack is a ST DPS upgrade (like CB).

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    Champion BehemothDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfortal View Post

    Can u imagine this? trash mobs > Stormcaller > boss > Pyromancer (whatever) > trash mobs > stormcaller > Boss, etc...
    I swap specs from trash to boss. I just always assumed that was a good strat.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Frailaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehemothDog View Post
    I swap specs from trash to boss. I just always assumed that was a good strat.
    +1



    Here's the deal: Trion couldn't care less what your "favorite" spec is. Content is designed with certain specs in mind and while there is usually some tolerance with regards to exactly which build you go with there's always a "best" group for any particular fight.

    Hint: don't take a knife to a gun fight and don't take a ST spec to an AoE fight. It may not be common sense but it should be.

    Boss fights are where it gets tricky where you have to balance a certain amount of ST without losing so much AoE capability that you can't get by. This is where a raid leader needs to step in and say "I need Player X, Y, and Z to go AoE and everyone else ST." If everyone walks up to Matron and decides they want to go ST you'd better hope you can kill her without activating the children or you will be SOL. If your raid leader has no idea what to bring then you're back to a progression status until you can figure out an optimal group to take to each boss encounter.

    Btw, for 5 man dungeons, the simple rule of thumb is that most of the time you will only need one full AoE dps player and all the other dps can ST. Domi, Sabo, or Caba all work nicely and I'm sure there's a warrior spec besides the infamous S&B that works fine. Any of the three AoE souls I mentioned above should have no trouble wiping a set of adds by himself rather quickly provided the tank can keep agro off him.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malamor View Post
    Why bother fixing it..in a few weeks the level cap will be 60 and it won't matter.
    Because what doesn't work now will be worse at 60.

    As with other mage ST builds that are still just terrible next to any mage pet classes. Sadly Trion is just about forcing you to be a pet class or you lose. Just bad design. I do hate pets.

    Good luck not using one in SL where the talents tree lie now.

    Again if it doesn't work now it will not work at 60.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    the problem is the fights designed with aoe elements. Like laethys or akylios.

    and its not just the mage "single target tree aoe", its everyones, except maybe warriors.

    We have to run people specced for aoe to make it past the aoe phases in a reasonable manner, which in itself isnt an issue, but say for akylios, that means you shine for the first ~6 minutes and spend 14 minutes doing jack squat if you got the aoe role.

    If everyone in your raid is single target specced and spams aoe the entire fight, youll end up killing NONE of the adds on Jornaru before the island hop. That's absurd.

    And the aoe specs are pretty far behind on single target(at the moment), it wouldnt bother me if you had a single target spec that was weaker at aoe(like we used to with the old firestorm) and an aoe spec thats weaker at single target(like the old pyro/SC), but the gap between them is just so dumb right now. like SC does ~2400 single target or so, and pyro is BETTER OFF SINGLE TARGETING THAN EVER USING ITS AOE.
    With single target being so high and HK not getting buffed against it. You just blow lashers down to one and all the stingers. Then blow up all the adds. Then the last lasher. No jumping to P3 with adds. You should easily beat the enrage now anyway.

    There really isn't any hurry to get through P2. So just kill the adds before trigging P3.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfortal View Post
    I DONT want to change my build. I like to play with elementalist because of pet. I know the builds arent for all situations, Im just asking to reduce that gap of aoe dps.
    Good luck finding a raiding guild that doesn't care about that kind of stuff. Sincerely.

    However, if you want to raid with even semi-serious raiding guilds then you have to learn to adapt your builds to what's needed. No amount of "fixes" are going to remove that issue.

  15. #15
    Champion Lonyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfortal View Post
    Hi guys, this is my AOE dps at 3 dummies.

    Full stormcaller: 6600
    Full Pyromance: 2200
    Full Elementalist 2800

    This is a huge difference. I like to play using elementalist build, but to run a dungeum or any stuff with lot of mobs, my build will not supply well like dps assistent. So my guild will not accept me to raids, i could be kicked in t2 and... enough.

    If i like that build, why i cant play on my way? Why i should leave full pyromancer or full Elementalits to Full Stormcaller to do aoe dmg? I cant agree with it.

    Can u imagine this? trash mobs > Stormcaller > boss > Pyromancer (whatever) > trash mobs > stormcaller > Boss, etc...

    I hope they fix it. It is so easy to fix. They dont need to make all equal, just more balanced. Is Stormcaller do 6600, let other builds do 60% of this at least. Ty,
    You have left the best AoE spec out 51 Dominator and you cannot get the best parse using dummies anymore.

    Just this morning in Meridian with the invasions I got 24.5k dps and 22.6k dps in two different invasions I have heard people say they have got 38k dps with this build.

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