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Thread: Can someone explain 51 pyro to me?

  1. #1
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    Default Can someone explain 51 pyro to me?

    I'm seriously confused. My best was 3600 on the dummy, I have ID gear on the left (2 relics), HK/ID on the right, with pvp weapon. 2586 SP, 929 crit. From what I hear, I should be doing better.

    When do you use flame sigil and prime? When do you use Fulminate? My best fulminate was around 19k.

    Do you use flame volley? or put that point in pyro armor?

    I think my main issue is that so many abilities just seem to contradict each other. We can remove our combust stacks, but so much of our damage comes from it, and countdown needs them. So I'm not sure that 10% damage buff we get from removing them for 20 seconds is worth it. Then we use our charge for internalize charge, but need it for fulminate. Ugh.

    So, if someone could help a noob, I'd appreciate it. Assuming of course that this is the best spec (I put 5 in necro and 10 in archon.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Mayhemo's Avatar
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    Combine flame sigil and prime together, if you do this before heatwave then you can recombine them again for 10 stacks of the buff + the heatwave buff. This gives you some seriously powerful burst dps

    As for your other questions, these are things I'd like to know the answer to because whenever I've been on the pts some cleric has been spamming bod and applying the magic damage debuff to the dummy. WTB personal training dummies or dummies that aren't affected by peoples buffs that aren't in your party / raid...

    If anyone has managed to do some lengthy testing on the following then I'm also curious to know!

    Fire or Pyro armour
    15 archon for infinte mana and some crit or 15 warlock to boost the dots, give more charge and use opportunity procs for cinderburst
    Fulminate vs using 100 charge for the rest of your abiliities.
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Intim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pricia View Post
    My best fulminate was around 19k.

    .
    19000 hit. I want that !!!
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    I can't claim to be an exceptional mage, and my gear is much more basic than yours, but here is my understanding of the spec. It would be great if one of the top-end mages like Igw, Ianto etc could drop by and offer further guidance.

    Spec:
    * I prefer 51 Pyro / 15 Archon: Note that the Archon gift is +1% damage while Ele is 0.5%. Very arguably, just 1-2 points in Exhilaration should be enough. As horrid a pain in the neck as building up Pillaging Stone stacks can be, 3/3 in Strength of Stone will probably be a dps increase.

    A summary of the general principles as I see them:

    * Use Pyromancer Armor.
    * Priority system rather than a set rotation - so an art rather than a science.

    1. Maintain 5 stacks of Combust at all times.

    2. Make sure your damage modifiers are up as much as possible. Namely: Flame Bolt and (at least*) 5 stacks of Flame Sigil. Try to time your hardest hitting spells (see below) to coincide with these two buffs.

    Tips:
    * Build 5 stacks of Combust -> Sigil to convert them to buff stacks -> Prime to put 5 stacks back up
    * How to get 10 Sigil stacks: 5 Combust stacks -> Sigil -> Prime -> Heatwave to refresh all your CDs -> Sigil -> Prime.

    Ideally, you should make the most of the first 5 stacks and only hit Heatwave 3 or so seconds before the Sigil buff falls off. This way you get +10 damage for 20 seconds and then +20 for another 20 seconds.
    Last edited by Akashar; 10-17-2012 at 06:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Arrgh! My computer is teasing me! I can't post the full thing in the right order

    -----------------------------------

    3. Your hardest hitting spells are: Flame Volley, Withering Flames(*) and Fulminate. Use these on cooldown and make sure all possible damage buffs are up before you fire them.

    Query: I need to test more to see if there is a definitive priority between the three. From I could tell, it seems very situational. Which one you should use at any particular time depends on how much charge you have, how much time you have left on various cooldowns, whether a recent CB proc triggered an internal cd on Fulminate etc. After a while, the spec begins to feel very fluid.

    Tips:
    * Flame Volley with Flame Bolt, 5 (or better yet: 10) stacks of Flame Sigil and Internalize Charge on.
    * Fulminate with Flame Bolt, 10 Sigil stacks (see above). I don't think it's possible to toggle IC on for Fulminate - or is this just due to my lag?
    * Withering Flames only at 5 Combust stacks. FB, Sigil buffs and IC on before WF - so make sure you have a full charge bar or the channel will be clipped off, which is a dps loss. I don't think the "toggle IC before channel & toggle after it starts" gimmick works anymore. Something to test tonight: Do channeled spells take a "snapshot" of your spells at the start of the channel, the way DoTs do?

    Query whether leaving out WF would result in a dps increase or loss. On the one hand, at five Combust stacks WF hits like a truck, tends to crit a lot AND refreshes your Combust stacks with each tick, so it seems very sensible to use it. On the other hand, all that charge WF drains could have been used to maximise the uptime of IC. Need to test further.

    4. Countdown at 5 Combust stacks with IC on. Countdown should be maintained 100% of the time.

    Query: Should Searing Vitality be used or left out? Does not seem to make much of a difference from what I saw. I tend to use it just after Countdown: IC on > Countdown > SV > IC off.

    When I'm in flow, everything seems to line up and I can squeeze Flame Volley, CD and SV into the same IC toggle, thereby minimising the hassle.

    5. Heatwave Fireballs. Refresh FB just before you go into Heatwave. What I tend to do is:

    Build up charge just as Heatwave is about to come off CD -> FB -> Heatwave -> 10 Sigil -> Fulminate -> Fireballs -> FB just before HW ends -> manage your IC toggles so you come out of Heatwave with a full charge bar ->

    Option A: Withering Flames with IC on; OR
    Option B: IC on -> (CD/SV/Flame Volley) -> IC off

    You should have about 4-5 seconds left on the 10 Sigil stacks to cover a good portion Option A/B.

    Summary:
    * FB just before you go into Heatwave and before you come out --- to benefit WF
    * HW Fireballs and Fulminate with 10 Sigil stacks

    6. Flame Bolt - to build/refresh Combust
    7. Cinderburst with IC off. Use CB for +37 charge gain. Only CB with IC on if your charge bar is already full and Fulminate is on CD.

    8. Fireball spam as a filler.


    Hope that helps!


    EDIT: I see that two posters beat me to it already :P
    Last edited by Akashar; 10-17-2012 at 06:37 AM.

  6. #6
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    Ok that helps a ton. Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to miss defilemancer LOL.

    You don't cast countdown when HW is up, correct?
    Last edited by Pricia; 10-17-2012 at 06:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    things I've noted from testing since the last changes went to PTS last night:

    Flame volley is a gain, use it with boosters if posible.

    Withering flames is a loss, it could be a gain, but the charge wasted on it makes it noth worth it.

    15 archon is your go-to subspec. it gives you +20% STdamage, +5% crit, Pillaging buff, SV buff, and mana return with exhilarate.

    Searing vitality is actually a loss. this one took me by suprise, as I was expecting it to be a gain, but leaving it out of the rotation worked better in all circumstances. if anything save it as an "on the move" instant skill.

    pyro armor is vastly better than fire with fire armor being fixed (finally) and how hard cinderburst now hits.

    you are explicitly prevented from using fulminate during IC, it is explicitly locked much like warlock's charge consumers are locked with SL : D on. as a result philosophy of flame talents are expendable.
    Last edited by Araenn; 10-17-2012 at 06:59 AM.
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  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Mayhemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pricia View Post
    You don't cast countdown when HW is up, correct?
    Countdown during heatwave hits like a truck
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  9. #9
    Telaran
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    I don't. And it's not that complicated when you get accustomed to it. To be honest, I could never get Defilemancer to work "properly" - especially with mechanics. 51 Pyro is complex and requires a good flow/proper timing to maximise, but is MUCH more forgiving than Defilemancer.

    Things I want to test:
    * Properly timed, WF seems to be a dps increase. Should/can the channel be clipped? If so, when?
    * Fulminate vs 100 charge for other abilities. I'm leaning towards Fulminate, especially with 10 Sigil stacks!
    * Can I justifiably avoid Pillaging Stones? :P

  10. #10
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    Countdown during heatwave hits like a truck
    Really? Hmm. I've always refreshed it just before and after. The first one gets the 5 stack buff, the latter gets the last few seconds of the 10 stack buff. Will definitely give it a try

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn View Post
    things I've noted from testing since the last changes went to PTS last night:

    Searing vitality is actually a loss. this one took me by suprise, as I was expecting it to be a gain, but leaving it out of the rotation worked better in all circumstances. if anything save it as an "on the move" instant skill.

    you are explicitly prevented from using fulminate during IC, it is explicitly locked much like warlock's charge consumers are locked with SL : D on.
    Thanks Araenn! I've been wondering the same thing. Good to hear confirmation.


    as a result philosophy of flame talents are expendable.
    It does allow you to have IC on for the full duration of WF though. I just love to see large numbers streaming like lava down a mountain!

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashar View Post
    It does allow you to have IC on for the full duration of WF though. I just love to see large numbers streaming like lava down a mountain!
    Unless it has changed, having IC on when WF is activated will apply the damage bonus to the full channel even if it is turned off immediately after the channel starts. The same works for Firestorm by the way.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashar View Post
    I don't. And it's not that complicated when you get accustomed to it. To be honest, I could never get Defilemancer to work "properly" - especially with mechanics. 51 Pyro is complex and requires a good flow/proper timing to maximise, but is MUCH more forgiving than Defilemancer.

    Things I want to test:
    * Properly timed, WF seems to be a dps increase. Should/can the channel be clipped? If so, when?
    * Fulminate vs 100 charge for other abilities. I'm leaning towards Fulminate, especially with 10 Sigil stacks!
    * Can I justifiably avoid Pillaging Stones? :P
    1) it isn't, tried it and had 2 other mages confirm it. not worth it, save for fulminate or internalize.
    2) use fulminate anytime its available, especially if you have any boosters active, before all else
    3) no, it will haunt your dreams, nightmares and duels for all eternity.

    I agree its nice to have something a little more forgiving but still requires finesse to maximize.
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  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Unless it has changed, having IC on when WF is activated will apply the damage bonus to the full channel even if it is turned off immediately after the channel starts. The same works for Firestorm by the way.
    Thanks for clarifying, Grinnz. I know we used the toggle on/off for channeled spells in the past, but I thought I saw the numbers fluctuate downwards on PTS after it was toggled off. Cannot quite remember- will double-check.

    And thanks for the tips Araenn!

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn View Post
    1) it isn't, tried it and had 2 other mages confirm it. not worth it, save for fulminate or internalize.
    Is this including the damage bonus from max combust stacks and the fact that it maintains combust?

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