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Thread: Balancing mana for mages

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara
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    Default Balancing mana for mages

    Yes it's early. But it seems some DPS specs are for lack of a better words mana hogs. Where some use next to none.

    You can use Warlock and Nerco is a example.

    Starting at full mana about 11K. Warlock can class non-stop for right at 4 mins. With Trion taking away getting mana back from wisdom. You will be hitting a non-DPS button to get mana back or you will run out on long boss fights.

    Nerco from what I've seen might as well not even have a mana bar. At the 4 min mark I was at 90% mana. And was doing 1000 more DPS not even spec'ed right.

    So not only are pets classes like nerco completely at this time over powered. They don't use mana either. As fights going on a spec like Warlock will fall even farther behind having to tag skills to get mana back. Where a Nerco just spams away with DPS.

    This worries me being Trions big thing is rebalancing in 1.11 and SL. And just these 2 things on 1 class is so unbalanced it forcing Nerco if not for the endless mana but just the HUGE dps increase it gives not really trying.

    Let's hope Trion doesn't go live with these things in place. They don't work on the PTS so I don't see them working on live.

    Of course Trion needs to bring pet classes down. Or bring non-pet classes up. But Trion really does need to decide whether they are going to have Mages who use mana use it or not. If Warlock can cast for 4 mins. Then every mage spec should be the same whether it's Archon which uses ZERO mana on PTS to Chloros or DPS.

  2. #2
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    Every soul now has a mana-regen channel spell. you can use pots. Or you could just invest points into Archon, and have infinite mana. The choice is yours! (That is, infinite mana, or waiting X seconds to fill back to full, at 0 dps.)

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Necro does eat through mana, albeit at an acceptable rate. Try playing 51 Necro rather than Zoomancer - only the latter stays at 90% (due probably to the absence of dots and dumping all your charge on Lich Form). All those dots and Epidemic procs consume mana at a steady rate. (The reduced mana cost for PB really helps here. Great foresight on Kervik's part!)

    From what I tested, only Stormcaller seems to have severe mana issues, even with 5/5 points in Archon's Exhilaration. This seems to be due mainly to Cloudburst's mana cost (almost higher than the AEs!), which is only exacerbated by the reduced GCD from Pouring Rain. However, this might be a non-issue since leaving out Cloudburst from your st-rotation and using Lightning Burst seems to be a net dps increase. (For more of the calculations, please see the "Consolidated Stormcaller Feedback" thread on the PTS forum.)

    Also, it's a misconception to say that "a pet class such as Necro" is overpowered. The issue is the damage from Dominator's Split Personality, not the Necro tree. 51 Necro, 51 Pyro and 51 Warlock all parse within acceptable parameters of each other.

    Imho, smart mana management should not be a problem for any of the souls other than SC. It's rare that you derp at a boss for more than 4 minutes straight. Use the time spent on mechanics and moving out of ground-goo wisely! Especially true for Warlocks with have an instant mana return (SL:M) which can be cast on the move! ;)
    Last edited by Akashar; 10-15-2012 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #4
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashar View Post
    Also, it's a misconception to say that "a pet class such as Necro" is overpowered. The issue is the damage from Dominator's Split Personality, not the Necro tree. 51 Necro, 51 Pyro and 51 Warlock all parse within acceptable parameters of each other.
    It's the multiplicative 4% damage increase from Necro per point spent that causes the shades to hit so hard. Without that gift bonus, they hit for an acceptable amount.
    Eclipze @ Retired Raider
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  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Re mana: Tested it again. You're right. Even pure necro never runs out of mana. I initially thought zoomancers had infinite mana thanks to the increased pool from Domi and the up-time on Lich Form. I did a 5 minute parse with 51 necro without toggling Lich Form once, and still mana never went below 80-90%. Therefore, it must be due to the reduced PB cost from Deadly Plague and Epidemic.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashar View Post
    Necro does eat through mana, albeit at an acceptable rate. Try playing 51 Necro rather than Zoomancer - only the latter stays at 90% (due probably to the absence of dots and dumping all your charge on Lich Form). All those dots and Epidemic procs consume mana at a steady rate. (The reduced mana cost for PB really helps here. Great foresight on Kervik's part!)

    From what I tested, only Stormcaller seems to have severe mana issues, even with 5/5 points in Archon's Exhilaration. This seems to be due mainly to Cloudburst's mana cost (almost higher than the AEs!), which is only exacerbated by the reduced GCD from Pouring Rain. However, this might be a non-issue since leaving out Cloudburst from your st-rotation and using Lightning Burst seems to be a net dps increase. (For more of the calculations, please see the "Consolidated Stormcaller Feedback" thread on the PTS forum.)

    Also, it's a misconception to say that "a pet class such as Necro" is overpowered. The issue is the damage from Dominator's Split Personality, not the Necro tree. 51 Necro, 51 Pyro and 51 Warlock all parse within acceptable parameters of each other.

    Imho, smart mana management should not be a problem for any of the souls other than SC. It's rare that you derp at a boss for more than 4 minutes straight. Use the time spent on mechanics and moving out of ground-goo wisely! Especially true for Warlocks with have an instant mana return (SL:M) which can be cast on the move! ;)
    I've only tried Stormcaller for AOE and have never had mana issues. It must come down to Cloudburst because what you've said goes against everything I've observed: that SC is one of the least mana-intensive souls. Chloro and Elementalist seem to be the biggest mana eaters. 51 Ele goes OOM in 3 minutes or less, and Chloro is similar.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    I think different specs having different feels mana wise is fine as long as the sustained DPS is balanced including this. Not sure what else to add.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDeath View Post
    Every soul now has a mana-regen channel spell. you can use pots. Or you could just invest points into Archon, and have infinite mana. The choice is yours! (That is, infinite mana, or waiting X seconds to fill back to full, at 0 dps.)
    Not the point.

    Why should some spec have to stop DPS to use their talent to get mana back? Where other specs just mash DPS with no worry about mana at all specing into tree where it gives them DPS. And other spec into trees where they have to get mana back skills or talents?

    That's poor design.

    Balance is DPS and mana. Not just one or the other.

    I guess Devs does test anything. All they'd need to do in 1 min on a target and they'd see balance sucks on specs using mana. If it sucks on one. It should suck on all of them.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    Pyro shouldn't have a mana bar either. I can keep using firestorm and wont drop below 90%. same with chloro, it dropped to like 75%.
    If you ain't Raidin, you ain't playin.

  10. #10
    Iri
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    Clerics would like to extend our warm welcome to the realm of resource management. We hope that your stay is long and comfortable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissibow View Post
    Not the point.

    Why should some spec have to stop DPS to use their talent to get mana back? Where other specs just mash DPS with no worry about mana at all specing into tree where it gives them DPS. And other spec into trees where they have to get mana back skills or talents?

    That's poor design.

    Balance is DPS and mana. Not just one or the other.

    I guess Devs does test anything. All they'd need to do in 1 min on a target and they'd see balance sucks on specs using mana. If it sucks on one. It should suck on all of them.
    I think some rogues and warriors want a word with you then.

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