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Thread: Chloromancer healing 1.11 vs 1.10

  1. #1
    Plane Walker Perros_The_Second's Avatar
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    Default Chloromancer healing 1.11 vs 1.10

    Healing is compared for a 51 chloro on live and on test. Identical gear, PAs, no self buffs, and no consumables are used. Gear level is about raid 2. The cited spell power is prior to applying in combat buffs.

    Live: 51 Chloro 15 Pyro 0 Elementalist (pet as a synth target)
    1835 SP
    Lifegiving Veil
    Void Life 476 (1s per tick)
    Vile Spores 1132 (2s per cast)
    Vile Spores dot 483 (once per cast)
    NF 321 (1.5s)
    NT 1748 (2.5s)

    Lifebound Veil
    Void Life (synth) 1546 (1s)
    Void Life (raid) 357 (1s)
    NT (synth) 5583 (2.5s)
    NT (raid) 582

    Test: 51 Chloro 10 Dominator 5 Elementalist (pet as a synth target)
    1935 SP (higher because of higher rating of INT)
    Lifegiving Veil
    Void Life 562 (1s)
    Vile Spores 1233 (2s)
    Vile Spores dot 572
    NF 371 (1.5s)
    NT 1781 (2.5s)
    Withering (hot tick) 345 (2s)
    Withering (veil tick) 569 (once)

    Lifebound Veil
    Void Life (synth) 2148 (1s)
    Void Life (raid) 77 (1s)
    NT (synth) 2766 (2.5s)
    NT (raid) 187
    Withering (hot tick) 345 (2s)
    Withering (veil tick synth) 412 (once)
    Withering (veil tick raid) 75 (once)

    Comments:
    - Lifegiving Veil
    Output is higher but crit. rate is significantly lower, overall a slight improvement.

    - Lifebound Veil
    Void Life healing of the tank is higher but NT healing is much lower. VL beats NT even using an instant cast proc. The cast time reduction of NT is useless.
    Group healing using Lifebound Veil was reduced by about 75% and is so low that it is basically negligible. It would take about 1-1/2 minutes to heal up a group exclusively using LBV.
    Withering Veins provides about twice the group healing of LBV and can be used to somewhat to compensate for the loss of LBV group healing.

    Overall, LGV is much better balanced, unless very heavy tank healing is needed it will be the better choice in group and small raid content. Tank healing is still possible using LGV because of the improved direct heal abilities.

    LBV is only useful as tank healer in raids when raid healing is provided by other healers but the chloro will be extremely vulnerable if raid healing is mainly provided by other chloros since his own veil heals won't suffice to keep him alive.
    Last edited by Perros_The_Second; 10-13-2012 at 10:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Use Rift Meter, parse both server Ur over healing done, like 5-10min and put points only in Chloro.
    Now u can post difference.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perros_The_Second View Post

    Comments:
    - Lifegiving Veil
    Output is higher but crit. rate is significantly lower, overall a slight improvement.
    Take into account that LGV now heals 10 targets instead of 5 and you'll find it's a massive improvement.

    As for LBV. I think that NT should be changed back to proc an extra heal on the Mages synthesis target (seems bugged right now) to make it worth it for tank healing again.

    I'm not too concerned about LBV having gimped 5man healing now, as like you said, Withering Vine nicely compensates and actually adds a little more of a rotation in keeping it up to heal though splash damage. Likewise it also doesn't matter as much since healing the group with LGV and keeping the tank up with things like Natural healing are now more viable (Chloro is like the old Senticar now!)
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  4. #4
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    As for actual healing rotation... for LGV Vile Spores seems to be much better than Void Life. A 2s cast Vile Spores will heal the same amount as 2 ticks (1+1s) of Void Life however the dot tick makes it better. But of course Void Life would still win for ''raid topping'' pad healing
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    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Other comments on Chloro... many of the Chloro talents have completely lost their synergy with the tree. All of the + Life damage is now negligible and I think need to be rethought to give synergy again. Maybe for example change ''Increases Life damage by 3%'' to ''Increases Life damage by 3% and causes LGV/LBV to trigger an additional x healing per tick...''

    Healing Torrent seemed really awesome at first. But meh would be cool if it was a bit more interesting than natural healing+hot
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Take into account that LGV now heals 10 targets instead of 5 and you'll find it's a massive improvement.
    Yeah overall LGV does better raid healing that it does on live currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    As for LBV. I think that NT should be changed back to proc an extra heal on the Mages synthesis target (seems bugged right now) to make it worth it for tank healing again.
    The extra heal it did on Live was consolidated into a single large heal on PTS.
    The bonus is the same from the napkin math I did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    I'm not too concerned about LBV having gimped 5man healing now, as like you said, Withering Vine nicely compensates and actually adds a little more of a rotation in keeping it up to heal though splash damage. Likewise it also doesn't matter as much since healing the group with LGV and keeping the tank up with things like Natural healing are now more viable (Chloro is like the old Senticar now!)
    My main issue with LBV is that Withering vines is a 15m heal, so if people spread out and take a hit it may be an issue healing them if for some reason, Flourish is down.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    I'm wondering if going into archon isn't a bad idea. Instead of faster casts you'd get more mana regen meaning less globals burnt keeping the mana bar full and more casting. You could grab more crit and maybe leeching flames (strongest mana per cast time spell we have). Or I guess you could invest in pyro and/or lock for more casts via procs or cast reduction/pushback immunity.

    So many choices but sadly all less exciting than before.

    Still overall we have lots of new toys, mass dispel, heal on dispel, RS isn't overpowered (though weak in 5 mans now).

  8. #8
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    So it's mostly back to vile spores with some nature's fury and withering vine in-between? Nature's touch is worth casting for raid heals though, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Other comments on Chloro... many of the Chloro talents have completely lost their synergy with the tree. All of the + Life damage is now negligible and I think need to be rethought to give synergy again. Maybe for example change ''Increases Life damage by 3%'' to ''Increases Life damage by 3% and causes LGV/LBV to trigger an additional x healing per tick...''

    Healing Torrent seemed really awesome at first. But meh would be cool if it was a bit more interesting than natural healing+hot
    I noticed this too and came here to ask about it.

    Those types of "increase life damage by 3%" procs.. and all of the life damage bonus made sense when the healing done was based on a % of the damage you did, but serve no purpose, aside from added DPS, when you consider that now all our heals come as a % of the cast time of the spell used to DPS.

    You could have two spells with identical damage, but the spell with the longest cast time is the one you are going to hit most often (wow, that's going to make pulling at a run even harder now).

    So my question - is healing based on the cast time AND a bit on the life damage, or maybe life damage causes additional heals based on the amount of damage done (basically the old version scalled way back and the new version thrown on top) or is it just a matter of increased damage to DPS faster and kill faster.

  10. #10
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    Quite sure the +damage stuff just gives you more dps. I guess they ran out of ideas of things to give us and figured they'd buff our damage a little bit or something.

  11. #11
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    When chain pulling, spam Withering Vines on everything that moves. You'll be quite thrilled with the results. Too bad you won't actually be tank-healing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milyssa View Post
    I noticed this too and came here to ask about it.

    Those types of "increase life damage by 3%" procs.. and all of the life damage bonus made sense when the healing done was based on a % of the damage you did, but serve no purpose, aside from added DPS, when you consider that now all our heals come as a % of the cast time of the spell used to DPS.

    You could have two spells with identical damage, but the spell with the longest cast time is the one you are going to hit most often (wow, that's going to make pulling at a run even harder now).

    So my question - is healing based on the cast time AND a bit on the life damage, or maybe life damage causes additional heals based on the amount of damage done (basically the old version scalled way back and the new version thrown on top) or is it just a matter of increased damage to DPS faster and kill faster.
    Here is what the write-up on "Sage" from the pre-built specs says:

    "Sages use Lifegiving and Lifebound Veil along with Life based damaging abilities to convert their damage into healing for their group." Along with the buffs to damage, it's little wonder if players get confused. Even Trion seems confused about it.

    Chlorospark was my goto spec for soloing and zone events, which is what I do the majority of the time. Dead and buried, and my disappointment is alive and well regarding the Chloro changes. Look at the pre-builts. Of the specs that seem designed for soloing, all but one utilizes pets. I hate pet management. I don't want to deal with it. What choice am I given? It seems to me the soul overhaul eliminated choice to a huge degree, and I thought flexibility was supposed to be the hallmark of Rift's soul system.

    I really would like to see Chloro changes reverted. Mage was may main, and I feel no desire to play it as things stand.
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  13. #13
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    I was playing around with the archaic-mancer spec last night. Was alot of fun.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...fVRfbo0Mbkc.-7
    With archon crystal

    Reduced cast time on spores and Natures touch
    Increased spell power, healing from talents
    Wanning power, 2 aoe damage increase lava field and wild growth
    Crit and damage talents as well

    About 3200 spellpower with vials, buffs up etc with my gear. Wanning power pushes that about 3500.

    Vile spores with reduced cast and add in natures touch every time you have 3 or 4 boon stacks. Pretty smooth transition between the 2 spells and the casting global cool down. IF huge damage is about to hit the raid vile spores, nature touch, and piggy back a ruin or flourish off the Nt cast.

    Biggest veil healing crit with Natures touch = 3970

    Going to mess around with it a bit more tonight.
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  14. #14
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    Not happy with these changes at all, took all the fun to me specs and ruined them. That said I'm trying to work with it. Chloro healing seems slow and awkward now where it used to flow more smoothly.

    Are there any specs/rotations/whatever out there that will work for Main tank healing? I tried the cookie cutter spec they gave us last night and it was rough, do able, but rough. I'm looking for other options to not make it so painful.

  15. #15
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    I wonder why they changed it to move away from a percent of the damage you did. When it was like that, there was every insentive to get your SP up, your DPS up as high as it could to be the best healer you could. Now, if everything is based on the cast times, you will be hunting around the spec for anything that shortens your cast times inorder to be able to squish more into the same amount of time - That really doesn't help your group much. Sure you'll do more damage in that alotted time, but you may very well be casting a spell that wasn't a huge damage dealer to begin with.

    Here is what the write-up on "Sage" from the pre-built specs says:

    "Sages use Lifegiving and Lifebound Veil along with Life based damaging abilities to convert their damage into healing for their group." Along with the buffs to damage, it's little wonder if players get confused. Even Trion seems confused about it.
    As shattered said, yeah... it's no wonder we're (I'm) confused. It seems like this writeup hasn't changed with the build, leading to the confusion. Does LBV, LGV still convert life damage into healing, on top of the new way? I don't think so, right?

    I'm not yet 50 (still 35) on my chloro - a mage I rolled especially for this spec, so I've got time to play around and learn it again.... but the specialness of the class seems to have gone away. It's no longer a pure Do Damage to Heal type, which I loved.

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