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Thread: Sacrifice Life: Damage and Raiding - Problem?

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    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Default Sacrifice Life: Damage and Raiding - Problem?

    I have been wont to say anything about Sacrifice Life: Damage for the longest time because nobody else seems to have two words about it - yet I've seen a situation in some boss fights, all too often, where it's downright dangerous to be using Sacrifice Life: Damage at particular points. This is all since SL: D became a 30s CD, mind you.

    I mean, 15% health loss isn't much, right? Why should it be an issue? In theory, it really isn't. But I see it coming dangerously close to be an issue exceedingly often. And too many times, it has been an issue for me. It's not like I'm dying to mechanics or something, or that I even die to it often. The occasions that I actually have died have been few, but part of that is because I'm aware and outside of 38/28 - which basically relies on SL: D - I'm careful about hitting SL: D when an unavoidable damage mechanic is about to happen.

    Yet it bugs me. Fights like Alltha and Ituziel come to mind, where the difference between living and dying is sometimes as little as a 15% margin. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone here. The ability is awesome and is an essential part of mage DPS. I just can't help but wonder if 15% health is a bit harsh for an ability that has become so essential to our DPS, especially with such frequency of use in a rotation. 5% seems like it would be much more reasonable to me, but perhaps that would make it too useful in PvP.

    Please keep in mind that my reasoning here has nothing to do with the skill of healers, or the highest mage DPS parse, and has everything to do with sacrificing a fair chunk of health to do the same stuff that other classes do. We do have Burning Shield, admittedly, but that is on the GCD. Is this really a non-issue or is it just that nobody is talking about it?

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Lalothen's Avatar
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    I don't think it's all that harsh, to be honest. As you said it's an awesome ability, and between it and charge-consumers that increase damage, mages have an almost constant significant boost to their damage. To my mind, there being a caveat that if you just mindlessly hit Sac Life: Damage without being aware of particular mechanics - especially in progressive content - you could end up screwing yourself over, is a fitting drawback easily rendered a non-issue by simple awareness.

    In fact, I would actually like to see more abilities for all of the callings that provide some kind of worthwhile boost, but come with a drawback that, if you make use of them at the wrong moment, essentially causes them to backfire and bite you in the arse.
    Last edited by Lalothen; 08-23-2012 at 11:34 PM.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    If anything I think SLD needs to drain more of your hp and be a lot more powerful to compensate.
    Make it ~25-30% of max health, make it a 40-50% damage boost and put the cooldown back to ~1.5-2mins

    As it is in 95% of situations you can just mindlessly use it whenever you want.
    I'd like to actually have to consider what the consequences of using it would be.
    With an increase in power to compensate.
    Nope.

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    Player has to think, please fix.

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    Plane Walker Matsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sariina View Post
    Player has to think, please fix.
    Non issue. Never died due to SLD. I don't even bother timing it around heavy damage mechanics.

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    Plane Walker DaCommando's Avatar
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    I havent noticed in any raid boss we have on farm so far a single mage dying to SLD.. in almost all boss encounters u have a chloro thats usually LGV, and will cover the dmg almost instantly after u use it.
    Last edited by DaCommando; 08-24-2012 at 09:04 AM.
    Retired

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    I can only think of a couple fights where it is even a remote concern.... Ituziel sub 35% and Laethys p2/p3 during Auric. I guess if you're really worried about it put on more resist + endurance so you aren't below 15% during ae damage.

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    Rift Disciple
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    People actually pay attention to the health reduction, let alone actually worry about it!?!? Holy wow man ...


    I agree with Primal, give it a huge damage buff and move it back to 2 min CD. In a 38/28 you are not using SL D on CD, you are mostly using IC because the abundant amount of charge you have leftover is crazy. I use SL D in that spec if my charge gets dangerously low, or to just make that skill feel useful in that spec. Rarely do I use it.
    Last edited by Ardus; 08-24-2012 at 01:23 PM.

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    Rift Master sculti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardus View Post
    In a 38/28 you are not using SL D on CD, you are mostly using IC because the abundant amount of charge you have leftover is crazy. I use SL D in that spec if my charge gets dangerously low, or to just make that skill feel useful in that spec. Rarely do I use it.
    woot?

    15 secs sl-d, 15 secs charge toggle for important abilites + as many spells as possible without dropping defile -> repeat

    never payed attention to sl-d even under heavy fire - but there are a few very unfortunate situations where it might actually kill you
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    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardus View Post
    People actually pay attention to the health reduction, let alone actually worry about it!?!? Holy wow man ...


    I agree with Primal, give it a huge damage buff and move it back to 2 min CD. In a 38/28 you are not using SL D on CD, you are mostly using IC because the abundant amount of charge you have leftover is crazy. I use SL D in that spec if my charge gets dangerously low, or to just make that skill feel useful in that spec. Rarely do I use it.
    If you're not using it nearly on cool-down in 38/28 you're playing the spec very wrong. The idea is that you drain your charge, use Sac life and repeat.

    If you have ''crazy'' amounts of left over charge left over you must not be using IC as much as possible.

    As for the thread, yeah, it's killed me at least 4 times off the top of my head, in Infernal Dawn. Once on Ituziel at least twice(sub 30 bad aoe heals), Conclave (explosive bolt+ feedback+ sac life trolol), Laethys(Auric+ SLD, Molten Gold+Orb+SLD lol), Maelforge (Torrent+SLD). Though all of these happened during progression when healing wasn't as good as it could have been I guess, or I could have just waited a second or two longer for it to be safe.

    I think it's a non-issue.
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    Plane Walker DaCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardus View Post
    In a 38/28 you are not using SL D on CD, you are mostly using IC because the abundant amount of charge you have leftover is crazy. I use SL D in that spec if my charge gets dangerously low, or to just make that skill feel useful in that spec. Rarely do I use it.
    I dont know how u do that?! I barely have enough charge and wish my bar was like 150 instead of 100 on this spec.. Its not that i run out of charge, its that i have so much use for it in my rotation. SL/D always popped when rdy, i sometimes actually count the seconds for it to be back..
    Retired

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    If you're not using it nearly on cool-down in 38/28 you're playing the spec very wrong.

    ....

    As for the thread, yeah, it's killed me at least 4 times off the top of my head, in Infernal Dawn
    Having never played the spec, I have no particular insight. However, I do find it amusing that the one who has died four times to SL is presuming to tell the one who has not how to play his spec.

    Maximizing damage output is quite important, but so is staying alive. Perhaps you two simply have different priorities.
    Last edited by Nefelia; 08-25-2012 at 12:53 AM.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Having never played the spec, I have no particular insight. However, I do find it amusing that the one who has died four times to SL is presuming to tell the one who has not how to play his spec.

    Maximizing damage output is quite important, but so is staying alive. Perhaps you two simply have different priorities.
    It's rarely an issue of "priorities" in those four cases. Healing should be adequate to quickly compensate for the extra damage from SLD even during periods of high raid damage (though admittedly, hitting SLD during Packmaster's Feedback is not the best of ideas). And again, it's hard to know when is the "right" time to use SLD during progression when tweaking out healing and DPS balance.

    Ah, and of course one of those deaths appears to be the beloved triple-tick. Need moar endurance PAs

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    I have the conquest trinket and the pvp staff so I guess losing 15% health has never been an issue for me. Except that time I killed myself with it. But only once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    If you're not using it nearly on cool-down in 38/28 you're playing the spec very wrong. The idea is that you drain your charge, use Sac life and repeat.

    If you have ''crazy'' amounts of left over charge left over you must not be using IC as much as possible.

    As for the thread, yeah, it's killed me at least 4 times off the top of my head, in Infernal Dawn. Once on Ituziel at least twice(sub 30 bad aoe heals), Conclave (explosive bolt+ feedback+ sac life trolol), Laethys(Auric+ SLD, Molten Gold+Orb+SLD lol), Maelforge (Torrent+SLD). Though all of these happened during progression when healing wasn't as good as it could have been I guess, or I could have just waited a second or two longer for it to be safe.

    I think it's a non-issue.
    What?

    Aside from using IC on all your DoTs, on Flame Bolt or just before a Void Bolt hits for refresh (or keeping IC on during an entire Void Bolt), the only thing that drains a lot of charge is fireball spams with IC on. Other than that, what else could you possibly use IC for?
    Last edited by Ardus; 08-25-2012 at 02:02 PM.

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