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Thread: Questions for a Dps spec other than the cookie cutters.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Sagjer's Avatar
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    Default Questions for a Dps spec other than the cookie cutters.

    Good evening.
    I recently hit level 50 with my mage and I started raiding some T1s as a healer/support.
    I currently sit at 1096 SP, 699 Crit, 220 Focus.

    I had a custom dps build SC/Pyro/Lock 44/12/10, focusing on dealing heavy blows with lighning burst.
    I loved it but it wasn't competitive enough so Ive put to a second fate.

    I tried afterwards some builds such as 51 lock,
    44/22 elementalist/pyro,
    28/38 pyrolock (liked most of the forementioned. pulled about 1k on a dummy? is this ok?
    i have no idea about the numbers i should achieve),
    but I didnt like anything at all, which I find it the most important a player should feel about his spec.

    My question is, is there any viable/competitive single-target necro or (preferably) stormcaller build?

    Thanks guys.

    PS: My own sc build (the 44/LB one) was pulling about 800-850 on a dummy
    and I didnt find it enough since it was heavily depandant on a static fight
    and we dont have many of those in our game.
    Last edited by Sagjer; 08-13-2012 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Typos
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  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    In a word, No.

    I will not be a happy mage if Necro and/or stormcaller are not viable endgame in Storm Legion.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    The cookie-cutter specs are common for a reason, they simply do the most DPS. As long as you don't expect to jump into ID with your custom spec and can pull your weight in lesser content, meh. Just know that some people will probably votekick or not group with you if you intend on using a custom-made spec and carry a generic DPS build around to do raid content with.

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  5. #5
    Soulwalker Sagjer's Avatar
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    Glamour, I totally agree. I believe we are in this game for its vast base of options.
    Its ridiculous that practically only one spec seems to be competitive.

    AJ, did I state single-target? Yeap i did.

    Brows-whatever-this-name-is, thank you, captain obvious.
    I mean, yeah, that's why I'm asking around people.
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  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    AJ, did I state single-target? Yeap i did.
    Stormcaller is an AoE damage soul. The build he linked is the highest single-target stormcaller DPS you're going to get. Because Spark means you can hit Cloudburst every 1 second.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-14-2012 at 06:58 AM.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    It is so awesome when people ask for help in one post and then turn into sarcastic dbags the next.

  8. #8
    dbe
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    Recently was testing stormcaller with 4-pc blighted crystal and roughly 1480 spellpower unbuffed.

    With 35/31 storm/pyro I got the highest single target dps, about 1650. I hated it though. Spamming cloudburst is nice because its instant but it's hard on my fingers to hit a button every 1 sec (for whatever reason, 1.5 sec doesn't make my finger go numb like 1 sec does). You also have to follow the duration of fire bolt rather than the cooldown. This is because you go fire bolt -> thunderbolt -> instant icicle. It's how you keep track of when your instant icicle is ready again and keep up electrified and hypothermia all the time. Use ice shear just as its running out.

    With 46/10/10 storm/pyro/warlock I can get 1560 using lightning burst. Here, cloudburst is only used while moving (macro it into thunderbolt). Don't use fire bolt, cloud burst is higher dps even without any debuffs on the target. Don't use any warlock spells either. To me the loss of 100 dps is not that big of a deal at this gear level. The rotation is basically:

    thunderbolt x 3
    ice shear
    lightning burst
    icicle only when instant

    During movement, just use the thunderbolt macro which has cloud burst at the bottom. Toggle on static flux for LB and icicle always, and for thunderbolt whenever you have lots of charge. The other nice thing about this spec is you can toggle on storm guard for predictable damage and it only needs to eat up a little bit of charge to do its job. You also have spark of life and discharge for some utility.

    One note on this rotation - I've tried it using ice shear every rotation after 3xTB, and using it only when it runs out. The dps is very close, so I choose the rotation method because it's easier.

    Overall it's a good expert spec and it's decent enough for T1 raids, but I'd probably use the 35/31 variant for fights with heavy movement.

    I've tried other variations of stormcaller and none of them get higher single target dps, including 48/18 SC/pyro for the 10% dmg from firebolt but choosing lightning burst over spark. Basically cloud burst + spark beats lightning burst. Any version with elementalist. Tried a 3x/3x variety, 44/22, it was pretty bad.

    One version I haven't tried is 36/30 SC/lock, but on math alone I can't see it competing with the spark build.

    Anyways, hope that helps. The worst part about asking for build advice isn't that people don't know the highest dps specs, it's that they don't know the highest dps specs without synergy crystals or in beginner gear (I promise you at 800 spell power pyrolock is entirely "meh"), and don't do a good job of giving you an idea of *how different* the dps is from one spec to another.
    Last edited by dbe; 08-14-2012 at 08:41 AM.

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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    28/38 pyrolock (liked most of the forementioned. pulled about 1k on a dummy? is this ok?
    It is crap.
    Defilemancer requires the crystal to be good.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Sagjer's Avatar
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    Ellements, ''help'' is not a synonym of ''i want answers i already know and it is obvious that I do through my initial post''.

    dbe, thanks mate. You totally grapsed the spirit here (and I'm not being sarcastic now).

    You stated that you used a 46/10/10 build, where I used a 44 one. Why the 2 points more?
    I find flicker more interesting since it can save my *** if I screw up a mechanic or something similar.

    Aguni, thanks, didnt know that. What crystal? Blighted one?
    How much DPS should I hit with my gear more or less on a dummy?
    Last edited by Sagjer; 08-14-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    As Aguni said 28/38 relies heavily on the Warlock HK crystal bonuses. 36/30 is a bit better without the Pyro crystal and has more burst via Heat Wave.

  12. #12
    Ascendant
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    I would suggest starting with 36/30, it is a lot easier to grasp than 38/28 if you're just starting out imo. Especially if you don't have the crystal then 38/28 is a big no no, like others have stated. Once you get the hang of 36/30 and get a 4 piece warlock crystal then can switch to 38/28 for single target and see how you do, it will feel a lot easier when you are only doing about 2 extra things instead of trying to learn it from scratch.

  13. #13
    dbe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    You stated that you used a 46/10/10 build, where I used a 44 one. Why the 2 points more?
    I find flicker more interesting since it can save my *** if I screw up a mechanic or something similar.
    Honestly, I was mostly trying to get the best ST dps out of stormcaller, but picking up flicker is probably smart. The meat of the spec is 44 sc / 6 pyro, the rest is just minor improvements here and there.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    Ellements, ''help'' is not a synonym of ''i want answers i already know and it is obvious that I do through my initial post''.
    Cookie cutters are the best DPS for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    Aguni, thanks, didnt know that. What crystal? Blighted one?
    HK/Nyx version.
    Blighted is crap for defilemancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    How much DPS should I hit with my gear more or less on a dummy?

    Sooo I am guessing maybe 1600 or so for you?
    Maybe less depending if you have the blighted crystal.
    Last edited by Aguni; 08-14-2012 at 05:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Lalothen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Sooo I am guessing maybe 1600 or so for you?
    Maybe less depending if you have the blighted crystal.
    That's not really reachable at his current gear level - I would say more around the 1100-1200 mark self-buffed on a dummy. When you reach around the 1500+sp/800+sc mark, that's when you're looking to be hitting around 1600+.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagjer View Post
    Ellements, ''help'' is not a synonym of ''i want answers i already know and it is obvious that I do through my initial post''.
    It's also not a synonym of "I'm going to be a c**t if you reaffirm what I already know about cookie-cutter specs offering the most competitive DPS". Bearing that in mind, I've got a spec for you.

    That aside, at your SP/SC level you can run the aforementioned Stormcaller build to decent effect, though it'll still be behind 51pt Pyro or Lock. Personally, I liked running a 51pt Ele build when I was at your gear level, because Swarming Flames & Intensify Elements provided some nice albeit limited burst, and the SP gained from Elemental Fury made a much more significant impact on my overall DPS. It's a build that quickly gets out-paced as your gear up though, and by the time you reach around 1500sp you'll find it's full Pyromancer or Warlock, some combination of the two, or you'll be behind the curve.

    In short, do what you like now, because it won't take much gearing up before you find you're pigeon-holed into a small number of specs if you want viable/competitive DPS - in a raid environment at any rate.

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