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Thread: I am not happy about my class PVP wise since pyro tree developments.

  1. #16
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    1. Tons of damage potential and burst
    Requires setting up via countdown, which is an 8 second cleansable debuff.
    Relies on heatwave for 1 second fireballs.
    Otherwise, lots of hard casting abilities, with very weak instant casts.

    rb/champ is better.
    Any RS variant is better.
    Only one's that are not better are clerics, and thats because no one cares about clerics (sorry Eughe).
    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    2. Tons of mobility
    WHERE!?
    Oh you mean flicker?
    The ability with 15m teleport?
    Oh yeah let's see, rogues and warriors teleport for 20m.
    Warriors can refresh, rogues get 4 teleports, which break CC.

    What mobility are you speaking of?
    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    3. Tons of cc
    Backdraft which is a GTAOE 2 second stun, which isn't worth using.
    A single target stun for 5 seconds that stuns the USER for 2 seconds, seriously why is our single target stun the only one with a self afflicting 2 second stun? Bad design. Sorry Kervik.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    4. Very nice survivability in fire shield and burning shield.
    fire shield absorbs 750 damage.
    My combo point builders can output more than 750 damage. Oh and you only absorb half that damage you take.
    Burning shield? You need to get hit for it to activate. It takes 15% of the mage's maximum health.
    So we're talking a 900 shield at best for a DPS specced mage.

    Yeah, very nice survivability.
    Nightblade regenerates a huge chunk of their health AND they can reduce damage.
    Just for dipping into nightblade alone.
    They also reduce both fire and death damage.
    They can dip into RS for more survivability.

    Warriors can dip into VK to utterly rip apart a mage.

    Again, what survivability are you speaking of? Or are you so incredibly horrid at the game you can't kill a mage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    It's the best soul in the game.
    Rift blade, rift stalker, night blade, saboteur, marksman, champion, any cleric healing soul.
    I can go on and on and on.
    Why?
    Simply because peole whos pec into those souls actually matter.
    Last edited by Aguni; 07-16-2012 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #17
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    I sure wish mages had a "18 points in champion soul" option:
    - uncurable 50% heal debuff applied passively on crit, including aoe.
    - battlefield intimidation fear/root ridiculousness. (for comparison 44 point warlock fear. how is the warrior ELEVEN point one 50x better than the mage 44 point one?)
    - 30s cooldown 'remove all movement impairing effects'
    - charge/root.
    - at 18 points, 15s snare (wtf 15s?! for comparison wither is 8s duration and a 1.5s cast)
    - various damage scaler choices, such as 10% damage on finishers or 10% strength or 2h damage or melee damage increase.

  3. #18
    Telaran
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    They should really do something about both our broken souls and the crowd control system of this game as soon as possible. I see less and less mages everyday in warfronts and more and more mages going broken healing specs i warfronts just because they cant be a real mage and beat the crap out meeles from range. I wish I had leveled the PA of my rogue or cleric A LOT!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    Dead serious. Nothing comes even close.

    It has:

    1. Tons of damage potential and burst
    2. Tons of mobility
    3. Tons of cc
    4. Very nice survivability in fire shield and burning shield.

    It's the best soul in the game.
    I think you play other game ....
    troll

  5. #20
    Sword of Telara Thedarkside's Avatar
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    Idk about you guys but when im stealthing around as assassin and i see a chloroloc with 12k life i back the **** off lol. Anyways I agree mages need some more choices maybe make SC viable again

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post

    Mages were obviously rushed on release, i mean look at flicker (our only teleport) for some reason its pretty much completely unreliable on rocky ground/if theres a tree etc, but if you look at every teleport/mobility skill in physical tree's you can blatently see they are way more reliable... now why on earth would they not use the same script for mage teleports is beyond me... but things like that (as well as the massive amount of mage bugs that have been present and lingering since beta) show that mages were rushed out and dont really fit into the design of the game the same as the other callings do.


    The teleport is worse
    The CC's stun yourself
    The shields were obviously meant to be alright but until they patched pyro didn't scale effectively at all (and still dont scale enough)
    They have a melee esque "finisher" spell, enchants that buff their own stats.

    Oh please, you have no idea.

    All teleports save the ones that teleport you to your target are unreliable, not just the mage ones. Guess how much fun it is for a rogue to use retreat, and it catapults you forward right into the ball of melee. Then you try to anticipate, and that's when it actually works, and you again, kill yourself. RS ground-targeted and 15m shift: you're always wondering what the hell was on the ground that made you shift only half the way or none of it.

    On the double is nice too, but you always get stunned while using one of your escape mechanics, because somehow there's always a stun ready on your oponents. And it's fun that you can root someone while they jump, and they get only rooted after they hit the ground (which means, since they were mounted and jumped right as they came in range, they're in port range, which also happens to remove roots/slows), yet, when you use retreat (and it actually does what you want it to do), and you get stunned, you drop to the ground like a stone at the spot you got stunned.

    Add to that that all of this is on the global cooldown, and you're never going to get away from a melee once you happened to get within 20m, since your defensive escape mechanics carry you a maximum of 20m. You use it, you get either stunned, or that guy is still on your back whacking you a new one.

    The only time you beat a melee is if he somehow messes up and you actually make it out of port range, or you saw him at 30m+ first and he was unmounted, with no LOS possibilities closeby. In essence: if both players play perfectly, you have no chance of escape, and targeted ports >>>>> all other ports.

  7. #22
    MiO
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    Quote Originally Posted by ururu View Post
    I sure wish mages had a "18 points in champion soul" option:
    - uncurable 50% heal debuff applied passively on crit, including aoe.
    - battlefield intimidation fear/root ridiculousness. (for comparison 44 point warlock fear. how is the warrior ELEVEN point one 50x better than the mage 44 point one?)
    - 30s cooldown 'remove all movement impairing effects'
    - charge/root.
    - at 18 points, 15s snare (wtf 15s?! for comparison wither is 8s duration and a 1.5s cast)
    - various damage scaler choices, such as 10% damage on finishers or 10% strength or 2h damage or melee damage increase.

    Charge/stun w/overrun

    Leg sweep lasts 8s when applied with no DR in pvp

    Ruthless Pursuit just dosnt work, if it worked on storm shackle that would be op.

    We're just going to go ahead and ignore spark, burning bright, dark power, and improved mage armor.

    I'd take a mortal strike effect on debilitating strike and heal debuffs nerfed to 15%, but hey, you take what you can get.


    It's twenty points by the way, you have to get frenzied strike unless you're just gonna spec for some LW dots spam tank spec in conquest or something.
    Last edited by MiO; 07-21-2012 at 12:48 AM.

  8. #23
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    I just do my own thing. This is the first time I have even read the Mage forum in a while. I had a fun build when I stopped playing after the first six months. When I came back it was changed a lot and I made some changes and tried out other builds but I do not use pyro, Dom or chloro in my build. It fits my play style and I understand it completely.

    I have a lot more fun doing that then forcing myself to play a combo I don't enjoy just because it is flavor of the year or whatever. The added benefit is my opponents don't know what I am doing because i am not a chloro dom pyro Mage.

    I actually have a few other combinations I want to try out eventually but given all the skill combos it can take a long time to become really proficient with a significantly different build.

    I would just say determine what is most important to you in your play style and then build up from there. Once you find a primary soul figure out what abilities will maximize your intended playstyle. Then look for a secondary to complement it and see how far up you want to go to be beneficial. Then finally look for a third soul that has some lower tier abilities you might find useful.

    I have never built a character based on a forum or website template. I might get ideas about certain skills or combos but I look at all the skills and see what I think will work and then try it out. In some cases a skill just does not integrate well or plays awkwardly so you might make changes.

    Finally, I certainly think mages need some attention overall and hopefully they will see it. However there is still potential for you to find a build you enjoy that is not just what everyone else is doing.
    Codex + 1 = Suck on a Gun

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bippo View Post
    I completely aggre with you. I wrote a similar post like 6-7 months ago. That was when I realised everyone was suddenly immune to my crowd control spells. I was having fun with a stormcaller/ele spec back then. My reason for using stormcaller was to destroy meele by kiting them. It seemed to me that stormcaller was the best soul to be an anti-meele mage but it didnt happen as it writes in the spell definitions. My spells which are capable of knockbacking a person 7 times didnt work because they became immune to if after 2nd knockback but they were still able to teleport to me 4 times as they still do.

    We are no longer a range class. I find it more fair to say that, we got some range starters because in the best situation we can only cast 2 spells until we go into a hard meele fight.

    I think this is the biggest problem for mages. There is just no good way to ever create room. Melees can always get to you and you have no real ability to maintain distance.

    The problem is it swings the other way and the melee complain they just get kited non stop.

    I think they need to be a bit creative and come up with something that is just not a persistent either or.
    Codex + 1 = Suck on a Gun

  10. #25
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    All the points raised above have been mentioned time and time again with no avail, as it stands mages and clerics are the LEAST actually worked on callings in the entire game.
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Pretty sure this award goes to rogues and the rubber spoon developer. Don't even try to play this card. Hell, we'll be lucky if we even hear about the new rogue calling before the expansion hits. Even then it will be subpar for all of 1.11-1.17.

  11. #26
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Mages were obviously rushed on release, i mean look at flicker (our only teleport) for some reason its pretty much completely unreliable on rocky ground/if theres a tree etc, but if you look at every teleport/mobility skill in physical tree's you can blatently see they are way more reliable...
    All of the non-player-targeted (Shadow Shift, Shadow Warp, Dark Passage, Fae Step or w/e it's called) ports work the same way. Flicker is not a unique and beautiful snowflake.

    tl;dr: The class balance qq needs to go.
    Last edited by Kyera; 07-23-2012 at 06:50 AM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiO View Post
    Charge/stun w/overrun

    Leg sweep lasts 8s when applied with no DR in pvp

    Ruthless Pursuit just dosnt work, if it worked on storm shackle that would be op.

    We're just going to go ahead and ignore spark, burning bright, dark power, and improved mage armor.

    I'd take a mortal strike effect on debilitating strike and heal debuffs nerfed to 15%, but hey, you take what you can get.


    It's twenty points by the way, you have to get frenzied strike unless you're just gonna spec for some LW dots spam tank spec in conquest or something.
    1.) Tooltip value reductions are identical, so I just went by tooltips. Wither is listed at 8s, leg sweep at 15s. You can list at half value or not but either way that's 2x the value of a 1.5s cast time mage snare.
    2.) Spark requires 25 points in pyro. Burning bright only affects fire spells. Dark power requires 25 points in warlock. Improved mage armor requires 30 points in warlock. So your point is warlock/pyro is OP? Cause they have no heal debuff, and the buffs don't stack for each other very well. Ask any healer if they fear a warlock/pyro more or a warrior more... IMO 38 warlock/28 pyro is basically a bad marksman spec with no heal debuff, no eradicate, 5m less range, much worse kiting, and considerably worse AOE.
    3.) I see you totally ignored the 11 point champion fear/root vs 44 point warlock fear. Well, what can you say really to this ridiculousness?
    4.) No heal debuff especially no passive "on crit" one..

    Points 3 & 4 were by far the most important. Thanks for your comment
    Last edited by ururu; 07-23-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  13. #28
    Plane Walker Effeil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ururu View Post
    1.) Tooltip value reductions are identical, so I just went by tooltips. Wither is listed at 8s, leg sweep at 15s. You can list at half value or not but either way that's 2x the value of a 1.5s cast time mage snare.
    2.) Spark requires 25 points in pyro. Burning bright only affects fire spells. Dark power requires 25 points in warlock. Improved mage armor requires 30 points in warlock. So your point is warlock/pyro is OP? Cause they have no heal debuff, and the buffs don't stack for each other very well. Ask any healer if they fear a warlock/pyro more or a warrior more... IMO 38 warlock/28 pyro is basically a bad marksman spec with no heal debuff, no eradicate, 5m less range, much worse kiting, and considerably worse AOE.
    3.) I see you totally ignored the 11 point champion fear/root vs 44 point warlock fear. Well, what can you say really to this ridiculousness?
    4.) No heal debuff especially no passive "on crit" one..

    Points 3 & 4 were by far the most important. Thanks for your comment
    1. It doesn't matter it lasts the same in pvp
    2. I dare you saying 28/38 is trash for pug warfronts!
    3. Comparing apple and oranges (we also get a spam-able fear in low warlock)
    4. Healing debuffs shouldn't even exist (and heals nerfed)

    We have to stop comparing classes to each other, they have different playstyles depending on their specs.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effeil View Post
    1. It doesn't matter it lasts the same in pvp
    2. I dare you saying 28/38 is trash for pug warfronts!
    3. Comparing apple and oranges (we also get a spam-able fear in low warlock)
    4. Healing debuffs shouldn't even exist (and heals nerfed)

    We have to stop comparing classes to each other, they have different playstyles depending on their specs.
    2 I play 28/38 all the time, so yeah not gonna do that.
    3 11 point vs 44 point and 44 point is worse. nope not gonna do that. and the spammable fear is single target and takes cast time.
    4 agreed but they ahve and we dont.. except a reasonable one in dominator.

  15. #30
    Plane Walker Effeil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ururu View Post
    2 I play 28/38 all the time, so yeah not gonna do that.
    3 11 point vs 44 point and 44 point is worse. nope not gonna do that. and the spammable fear is single target and takes cast time.
    4 agreed but they ahve and we dont.. except a reasonable one in dominator.
    1.5 sec cast time is fairly acceptable. If you play 28/38 you know how many opp procs we get, maybe you should use fear on those like I do ;)
    Effei - Seastone
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    Who needs swag when we will be in melee shredding you apart with Harbinger.

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