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Thread: Dealing with ranged rogues in lower PVP brackets

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Dealing with ranged rogues in lower PVP brackets

    Hi,

    I picked up Rift after doing the level 20 trial. Trion has made a fantastic game.

    That said, I'm feeling like a wet paper towel in the warfronts against rangers/mm. It seems like they are playing a different game than I am. I have specced necro/lock, Chloro/dom, and pyro/lock. Out of those three roles, I found that only as a chloro do I seem to survive.

    I might not kill anyone, but I can at least not be burned down in 4 seconds by a ranger/mm.

    Any suggestions? Also, will this get better? They are critting for almost a thousand, and I'm critting (level 23) for only 600.

  2. #2
    Telaran Amuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freng View Post
    Hi,

    I picked up Rift after doing the level 20 trial. Trion has made a fantastic game.

    That said, I'm feeling like a wet paper towel in the warfronts against rangers/mm. It seems like they are playing a different game than I am. I have specced necro/lock, Chloro/dom, and pyro/lock. Out of those three roles, I found that only as a chloro do I seem to survive.

    I might not kill anyone, but I can at least not be burned down in 4 seconds by a ranger/mm.

    Any suggestions? Also, will this get better? They are critting for almost a thousand, and I'm critting (level 23) for only 600.
    It will get better, though not perhaps the way you expect.

    MM/RNG are DPS specs. They're supposed to do more damage than you do. The tradeoff is, they have very little self healing ability. Your situation is the opposite. Speaking as someone who runs MM as my main and has a Mage alt, I have not found Chlorolock to be very useful in WFs. Next to bad MMs (easily identified by their Fan Out spam hitting two or three targets nowhere near the objective), Chlorolocks are my favourite easy kills (I rarely see them in Level 50 WFs, though). As a Mage, I've found Chloro/Dom and Pyro to be the most useful in PvP.

    Dying in WFs is part of the deal; it's what you can accomplish while you're up that matters. Coordination with your team (or, absent good coordination, sticking near the Clerics) can extend your uptime, but you should expect to die some in most fights regardless of your spec.

    So you look at your team composition and figure out which will do the most to help your team win. Usually, DPS isn't lacking, so you'll want to go Chloro/Dom. Stay near the Clerics if you can and make the other team as miserable as you can (you have a non-trivial amount of self-healing available, but it won't outheal focus fire). Plus, it's fun. If your team does need more DPS, switch to Pyro and accept that you're a glass cannon--you'll do good damage but die more.

    My Chlorolock spec I just use in PvE. Other, more experienced Mages may disagree, of course, but this has been my experience.
    Last edited by Amuk; 02-17-2012 at 09:08 AM.

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  3. #3
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    After playing my low level Marksman I know how you feel. Almost every single Mage will die to a mid-bracket Rogue who does something like:

    Crippling shot (they can't run away) > Barbed shot > Swift shot > Empowered shot > Rapidfire shot > Lightning fury (5-6 seconds max)

    Pyromancer? Free kill once I use deaden, you flicker and have 1/3 of your health remaining to start the fight.
    Warlock? DoTs may kill me... AFTER you've already died, if I have no healers and I'm not using bloodthirsty.
    Pure chloro? Don't bother!

    However there is one hard counter to Rogues in the lowby brackets. Dominators (specifically chlorodom), since they can't cleanse:

    Start off with Transmogrify - Storm shackle - then if he doesn't break free use as much time as you have on applying debuffs. i.e.:

    Traitorous influence
    Radiant spores - he will heal you as he damages himself with Traitorous influence
    Incompetence - he will heal you as he attacks
    Or use the time to apply some moderate damage. Haunting Pain and Withering Vine is nice

    Note: Don't hardcast cast time spells as they are begging to be interrupted. Use them with your Swift control proc (after squirreling).

    Use Transference to energy drain him in anticipating of big damage. i.e. an incoming 5 combo point finisher.

    Always cleanse before healing if he has Vampiric Munitions heal debuff on you (learn this icon asap)

    Use Thunder blast to interrupt his Empowered Shot, Deadeye shot and Splintered Shot with a knockback if you're close to him. Or squirrel to interrupt them from a distance. He's going to be immune to squirrel (has already had 2 control affects recently)? Then line of sight these cast time attacks.

    Don't move about unless necessary whilst afflicted with Barbed shot.

    At level 31, Split Personality is an i-win button if you can survive his initial burst (very easy with bloom, flourish, squirrel and 2 energy drains).

    If the Rogue has reached level 44 and has Eradicate(purge), make sure you're running with 0 point Archon for Searing Vitality. Due to the first in first out purge order, searing vitality stacks will be purged before your pets. Refresh your charged shield whenever it is purged - the damage output is very underrated versus Rogues.
    Last edited by Soul sky; 02-17-2012 at 09:23 AM.
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  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post

    However there is one hard counter to Rogues in the lowby brackets. Dominators (specifically chlorodom), since they can't cleanse
    Funny, I just specced full Dom last night with a new role. I seriously have no idea what I'm doing with the spec! The sheer number of debuffs is daunting, and I've run out of easy binds (need a keyboard with no windows key so I can bind ctrl+ and alt+ instead of only shift+).

    I suspect it will take ma 10 levels just to remember what every debuff does and then another 10 levels to use them properly. But that's okay. I'll give it a shot.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amuk View Post
    MM/RNG are DPS specs. They're supposed to do more damage than you do.
    lol @ this

    To the OP, I find Burn disarm in pyro works quite well
    Ixae - Seastone Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Amuk View Post
    MM/RNG are DPS specs. They're supposed to do more damage than you do.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    A pyrolock is actually quite effective 1v1 vs a MM, at least at higher levels. Spend the first few GCD's setting him up with your instant casts, then disarm and hit him with a fire ball or two (CB / Opp proc depending) before countdown goes off and you hit sweet sweet inferno.

    Taking advantage of their silence being tied to a interrupt while your disarm is not is key, that and the fact a pyrolock will usually only the cast fireball once or twice in a normal rotation anyway. Also using Dark Fury as an interrupt is pure win here.


    P.S. someone pointed out your team usually has lots of DPS, however I find the chance of them being GOOD dps is much rarer; this is why I nearly always go pyrolock unless the enemy team is swarming with clerics healers, then I might pop into chlorodom and mana drain some fools.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    Disarm them, and es'plode them. (instant cast spells and opportunity are key here)

    The advanced strategies listed above are not needed for 99% of the mm in lower level brackets, and will probably leave you struggling to figure it all out in the middle of a fight.

    Once you can destroy 90% of the easy kill enemies, and have just a few difficult ones still getting you, check out some of the hints above.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freng View Post
    Hi,

    I picked up Rift after doing the level 20 trial. Trion has made a fantastic game.

    That said, I'm feeling like a wet paper towel in the warfronts against rangers/mm. It seems like they are playing a different game than I am. I have specced necro/lock, Chloro/dom, and pyro/lock. Out of those three roles, I found that only as a chloro do I seem to survive.

    I might not kill anyone, but I can at least not be burned down in 4 seconds by a ranger/mm.

    Any suggestions? Also, will this get better? They are critting for almost a thousand, and I'm critting (level 23) for only 600.
    Don't listen to the 2nd post. MMs are not better damage then a mage in PvP. Mages can do DPS just fine in PvP and they also have sweet burst damage, in all the brackets. They do however take a bit more understanding to work, not much but the the learning curve on mages, imo, is a bit more then the other classes.

    You can also go chloro and do very well in the lower brackets. A low level chloro can push mad heals while still get a few kills on the side. But just understand that once you hit the level 50 bracket the effectiveness of chloro, in PvP, takes a nose dive.


    "They are critting for almost a thousand, and I'm critting (level 23) for only 600."


    It's gear. You have joined the game just as the era of the twink has begin in Rift. So there is still a lot of holes they will need to patch and fix in the lower level brackets. What I would recommend is that you gear yourself up. Run some dungeons, check the AH, check item vendors (PvP, Faction and Planar) for your level. Which would be if you are Guardian Sliverwood and Gloomwood. If you are Defiant then Freemarch and Stonefield.

    Also make sure to get your consumables: runes for your items, healing pots and mana pots.
    Last edited by Jeremiahcp; 02-20-2012 at 07:31 AM.

  9. #9
    Telaran Amuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    Don't listen to the 2nd post. MMs are not better damage then a mage in PvP. Mages can do DPS just fine in PvP and they also have sweet burst damage, in all the brackets. They do however take a bit more understanding to work, not much but the the learning curve on mages, imo, is a bit more then the other classes.

    You can also go chloro and do very well in the lower brackets. A low level chloro can push mad heals while still get a few kills on the side. But just understand that once you hit the level 50 bracket the effectiveness of chloro, in PvP, takes a nose dive.


    "They are critting for almost a thousand, and I'm critting (level 23) for only 600."


    It's gear. You have joined the game just as the era of the twink has begin in Rift. So there is still a lot of holes they will need to patch and fix in the lower level brackets. What I would recommend is that you gear yourself up. Run some dungeons, check the AH, check item vendors (PvP, Faction and Planar) for your level. Which would be if you are Guardian Sliverwood and Gloomwood. If you are Defiant then Freemarch and Stonefield.

    Also make sure to get your consumables: runes for your items, healing pots and mana pots.
    He was talking about his Chloro spec. Which I suggested he drop for PvP in favour of pyro for DPS for pretty much the same reasons you did.

    But it's my fault I wasn't clear.

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  10. #10
    Ascendant Hotter's Avatar
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    Line of sight works wonders against a ranged.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amuk View Post
    He was talking about his Chloro spec. Which I suggested he drop for PvP in favour of pyro for DPS for pretty much the same reasons you did.

    But it's my fault I wasn't clear.
    I see I missed that, sorry for the confusion.

  12. #12
    Telaran Amuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    I see I missed that, sorry for the confusion.
    The confusion is entirely on me. If I'd written "they're supposed to do more damage than a Chlorolock" what I meant would've been clear and I wouldn't now be in someone's signature. Mea culpa.

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  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for all the input. I have three roles that I switch between:

    Pyro/lock, Chlor/Dom, and Dom/Chlor.

    I generally have a role for any given warfront situation.

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