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Thread: Raid healing with vile spores - theorycraft

  1. #1
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    Default Raid healing with vile spores - theorycraft

    I have no idea how to test this... just wondering out loud.

    We know that in ideal situations, vile spores trumps void life in raid healing.
    However, because of the buff from burning purpose, the vile spores 1st DoT proc gets clipped and we lose a lot of healing.
    So, lots of people have come up with various methods of alternating vile spores with some other spell.

    Was just wondering.... what if we literally just have a slight pause after each vile spore? The only spell I'll cast in between if ever is ruin (although this might be better used for emergencies). This is pure theorycrafting..... but presumably a vile spore every 2.2s (I'm assuming most normal people won't be able to judge 2s exact) will have equal or better HPS than trying to alternate?

  2. #2
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    There really shouldn't be a chloro "rotation" as it's pointless to be maximizing HPS output when everyone is topped off. The only time I can see a rotation being useful is during progression where you don't know the mechanics yet. Every fight in the game now should be slightly different as you should be casting your spells pro-actively in accordance with the mechanics which deal damage to your raid. Almost all raid damage in boss fights can be predicted once you know the fight.

    Having said that, I think would be best to basically alternate vile spores, void life, ruin and nature's touch assuming you have the four piece. Alternate them in a way where you never have any large gaps of no healing, using the single ticks of VS/Ruin to help achieve this.
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    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    Hmmm, haven't tested this, but I think I'm still getting the first tick of Vile Spores off with Burning Purpose when I stand really far away. At this point, I haven't bothered paying attention though. Push comes to shove, I'm jumping around during raid so much that I probably end up letting the tick get off while stopping to cast.

    Eh, curious if this is on Kervik's list, though. Could just knock off a second of the dot duration and have it tick faster, thus possibly correcting the issue without having to determine if it's a good idea to cast filler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownsMageNerfDelivery View Post
    Hmmm, haven't tested this, but I think I'm still getting the first tick of Vile Spores off with Burning Purpose when I stand really far away. At this point, I haven't bothered paying attention though. Push comes to shove, I'm jumping around during raid so much that I probably end up letting the tick get off while stopping to cast.

    Eh, curious if this is on Kervik's list, though. Could just knock off a second of the dot duration and have it tick faster, thus possibly correcting the issue without having to determine if it's a good idea to cast filler.
    Agree with vile's DoT being over 3s instead of 6... but till then.

    And standing faraway doesn't help. I've checked.

    Regarding the comment on maximising HPS... using the rotation you've mentioned doesn't really achieve more either.... you're still trying to maximise HPS. Since I'm trying to do the same either way, I'm just wondering if a slight pause with vile spores will be better (I was just thinking this can also be done by just toggling entropic... the slight pause should make up the 0.2s).

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    Plane Walker Jmarz's Avatar
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    maybe change the function of the vile spores dot, to be as any other dot at our disposal, to instantly cause a tick on the reapplication of the vile spores dot?

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    I don't think anything should be done to make Vile Spores spam better.

    I'd prefer something be done to work other spells into the rotation.
    Nope.

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    Generally you will get more hps with VL than VS. Why?
    Because using VS, the cleric next to you probably already healed the damage that was just done to the raid (unless it was a big hit / lots of ppl).
    With VL, it's a constant stream - You're healing people the instant the are damaged.

    I agree that there is no rotation, except with bosses that have mechanics in a set order or mechanics that a rotation works with.
    Inq. Garau comes to mind, where I have a long rotation that fits with his big AOE hit / his AOE on melee etc.
    I ALWAYS have an insta NT on hand for a big AOE hit. I ALWAYS have Ruin on hand for the start of the big AOE hits on melee. A VS insta proc often gets in there too (a bonus).

    Generally I'll use VS when opportunity procs, and only then, since I have the 4pc HK set giving me insta NT anyway.
    That's enough to keep the dot up half the time anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CreepyD View Post
    Generally you will get more hps with VL than VS. Why?
    Because using VS, the cleric next to you probably already healed the damage that was just done to the raid (unless it was a big hit / lots of ppl).
    With VL, it's a constant stream - You're healing people the instant the are damaged.

    I agree that there is no rotation, except with bosses that have mechanics in a set order or mechanics that a rotation works with.
    Inq. Garau comes to mind, where I have a long rotation that fits with his big AOE hit / his AOE on melee etc.
    I ALWAYS have an insta NT on hand for a big AOE hit. I ALWAYS have Ruin on hand for the start of the big AOE hits on melee. A VS insta proc often gets in there too (a bonus).

    Generally I'll use VS when opportunity procs, and only then, since I have the 4pc HK set giving me insta NT anyway.
    That's enough to keep the dot up half the time anyway.
    I tend to agree with this guy. You can make theories but reality works pretty much like this.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    CreepyD is correct.

    In most situation Void Life is going to provide better HPS on the meters but less raw healing power.

    But there's yet to be an encounter where raw healing power has been a determinant, unless I'm drastically mistaken.
    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    And standing faraway doesn't help. I've checked.
    QFT. If it takes 1s to travel on 2s cast(for arguments sake) then the first cast takes 3s to get there, but every cast after only takes 2s to hit the target because you have 1s worth of a cast until the previous VS hits 2+1(travel time)-1(previous casts travel) = 2. The only way this might work is if you get knocked back.
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    Except that some of the top chloro HPS parses have been done using vile spores.

    I understand your logic on the VL advantage.... and in theory, I thought that would be the case as well. However, in practice, VS alternating with other spells does seem to trump VL with a few exceptions.

    1. Heavy movement fights.... easily to get VL up and ticking. If you get interrupted halfway through VS, its quite a drop.

    2. Heavy raid dmg fights and you do not have at least 3 pts in pyro. Push back is a severe HPS drop.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Dantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreepyD View Post
    Generally you will get more hps with VL than VS. Why?
    Because using VS, the cleric next to you probably already healed the damage that was just done to the raid (unless it was a big hit / lots of ppl).
    With VL, it's a constant stream - You're healing people the instant the are damaged.

    I agree that there is no rotation, except with bosses that have mechanics in a set order or mechanics that a rotation works with.
    Inq. Garau comes to mind, where I have a long rotation that fits with his big AOE hit / his AOE on melee etc.
    I ALWAYS have an insta NT on hand for a big AOE hit. I ALWAYS have Ruin on hand for the start of the big AOE hits on melee. A VS insta proc often gets in there too (a bonus).

    Generally I'll use VS when opportunity procs, and only then, since I have the 4pc HK set giving me insta NT anyway.
    That's enough to keep the dot up half the time anyway.
    I do it the same. I've tried every feasible combination and I highly prefer the VL spam with Ruin, Insta-NT, and Insta-VS available. Excellent baseline healing with spike healing capability. This has proven itself time and time again to be superior in our 10 and 20 mans.
    Last edited by Dantes; 02-17-2012 at 05:10 AM.
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