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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Itemization Issues in 1.7

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple HorseMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Itemization Issues in 1.7

    It would be great to get a response from Kervik on the current state of item progression. I will say that in general I like the stream-lined progression and as a whole buffing lower end gear is a great thing, but it needs to be tweaked some. Mages have some serious issues relating to the progression of our gear; here are some examples.

    Deep Freeze Cowl (Drowned Halls) - 32 INT, 26 WIS, 18 End, 21 SP, 0 SC / 50 Total SP
    Nyx's Runeburst Cowl (HK Greater Marks) - 45 INT, 25 WIS, 17 END, 13 SP, 23 SC / 48 Total SP

    Ragetide Robes (Drowned Halls) - 37 INT, 25 WIS, 13 END, 27 SP, 15 SC / 58 Total SP
    Nyx's Runeburst Vestments (HK Greater Marks) - 51 INT, 26 WIS, 18 END, 28 SC / 56.5 Total SP

    Leggings of the Endless Winter (Drowned Halls) - 41 INT, 26 WIS, 14 END, 25 SP, 0 SC / 58.5 Total SP
    Nyx's Buneburst Trousers (HK Greater Marks) - 48 INT, 25 WIS, 16 END, 16 SP, 37 SC / 52.5 Total SP

    Planar Conqueror Slippers (Vender Emble Isles) - 32 INT, 19 WIS, 14 END, 14 SP, 9 SC / 39.5 Total SP
    Treads of Darkness (Matron HK) - 40 INT, 22 WIS, 16 END, 15 SP, 0 SC / 46 Total SP
    Slippers of the Aelfwar Prince (GSB) - 31 INT, 20 WIS, 11 END, 10 SP, 21 SC / 35.5 Total SP
    Nyx's Runeburst Treads (HK Greater Marks) - 38 INT, 19 WIS, 15 END, 0 SP, 29 SC / 28.5 Total SP
    Nyx's Runevoid Treads (HK Relic) - 44 INT, 20 WIS, 15 END, 0 SP, 31 SC / 32 Total SP

    The problem mostly lies in two areas. Overbuffing of certain items; mostly from DH to be exact. Also the fact that most mages approach the soft crit cap so easily.

    The biggest problem I see is the Mage Boots. You have designed the boots so that the HK Relic is 4th best in slot when accounting for the soft crit cap.

    Mages could care less about crit once they are in HK which makes me think that this was an oversight when they designed the high end gear for Mages. Obviously if we were not at the soft crit cap we would see a spike in the value of items with heavy crit. Trion really needs to either re-itemize the high end mage gear or change how easily it is to get to the crit cap.

    NEVER I MEAN NEVER should boots from GSB be better than HK relic boots. This is absurd and needs to be fixed ASAP!

    Values obtained from the 1.7 Mage gear spreadsheet by Windstorm found at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nZ0eHc1ZGJ0M3c
    HorseMonkey
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Ramen Sama's Avatar
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    *cough*

    Captured Tsunami?

    *cough*

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
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    Time to farm DH....


    Don't think kervik is in charge of items unfortunately.... guess he'll just have to pass the msg along.
    Personally, I feel the bigger issue is that the crit soft cap is too easy to reach, making subsequent gains of SC near pointless.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    The wand situation is even worse.

    Admittedly I have had terrible luck with wand drops but the fact that I'm using 2 different non-raiding wands for dps/chloro in an 11/11 guild is a little ridiculous.
    Nope.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Part of the reason I've been slow to update aside from life impinging on my time is the fact that every time I look at the sheet I die a little inside. also dreading what i might find when I actually dig through all the mastermode and RT1 stuff in the database
    Windstorm - Mage - Faeblight US
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn View Post
    Part of the reason I've been slow to update aside from life impinging on my time is the fact that every time I look at the sheet I die a little inside. also dreading what i might find when I actually dig through all the mastermode and RT1 stuff in the database
    Don't dig too hard..
    I upgraded from Hatebinder, Wand of Spite to Touch of Storms today /facepalm
    Nope.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    That is problematic, though the nearest excuse one could use regarding HK helm is that it has 50 focus.
    =\


    Mayhap the HK items need a slight boost.

  8. #8
    lgw
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    First: Absolute agreement on bad itemisation.



    Although even over the soft cap you shouldn't completely discount crit.

    Deep Freeze Cowl (Drowned Halls) - 32 INT, 26 WIS, 18 End, 21 SP, 0 SC / 50 Total SP
    Nyx's Runeburst Cowl (HK Greater Marks) - 45 INT, 25 WIS, 17 END, 13 SP, 23 SC / 48 Total SP
    Nyx has -2 SP
    ... but it has (45-32) + 23 SC = +36 SC = +0.28% SC even when over the soft cap.
    Considering I'm around 2.2-2.4k SP during HK encounters (no weapon relic, no FP), I'd still take the crit increase.


    Second it's very likely that, unless they again put the whole itemisation upside down, we'll see something like a general crit debuff along the lines of -150 crit early, -300 mid, -500 endboss (similar to what they initially did in upper HK) to make gear progression still meaningful.
    I shudder at building fire or earth resist sigils in the current state of itemsation.
    Last edited by lgw; 02-14-2012 at 05:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant
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    Hey, I just had to farm sourcestones for two days and got the 5th BiS wand. That's kinda awesome.

    Oh and the BiS wand is a wand from an old t1 expert... don't forget that.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. They need to hire a new itemization dev IMO... I really have no idea what they are thinking.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Dantes's Avatar
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    While I agree that itemization was poorly done, you seem to be focusing on Spell Power solely and missing the big picture. I honestly feel that not one piece of HK gear should be worse in any stat than a piece obtained outside.

    For the fun of it, I'm actually going through and creating an equip set focusing on maximizing SP only where zero weight is placed on crit since crit just builds up on its own. Then I'm going to compare the collateral damage (i.e. how much less mana you end up with due to the lower INT, how much more damage you'll take due to lower END and ARMOR, etc.)

    I'm going to bet that you'll have much less mana, less mana regen, and die more frequently all for a few more SP.
    Last edited by Dantes; 02-14-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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  11. #11
    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantes View Post
    While I agree that itemization was poorly done, you seem to be focusing on Spell Power solely and missing the big picture. I honestly feel that not one piece of HK gear should be worse in any stat than a piece obtained outside.

    For the fun of it, I'm actually going through and creating an equip set focusing on maximizing SP only where zero weight is placed on crit since crit just builds up on its own. Then I'm going to compare the collateral damage (i.e. how much less mana you end up with due to the lower INT, how much more damage you'll take due to lower END and ARMOR, etc.)

    I'm going to bet that you'll have much less mana, less mana regen, and die more frequently all for a few more SP.
    Check BiS sheet list #2, weights take into account end + focus on gear, both lists account for crit at its decreased value.
    Last edited by Araenn; 02-14-2012 at 09:12 AM.
    Windstorm - Mage - Faeblight US
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  12. #12
    Rift Disciple HorseMonkey's Avatar
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    ^^ What he said. I did not list everything in the game and only took a couple examples which stood out for me. Check the spreadsheet I linked for more detail.
    HorseMonkey
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    I completely agree.

    What are we supposed to do about necklaces? Our options are:

    1 Craft a mediocre one
    2 Go farm DH for a mediocre one
    3 Watch clerics rage as we roll on their gear
    4 Be in an 11/11 guild and get lucky on aky drop.


    What pisses me off the most though, is maddening flame vs wand of excess., I passed on thatGP wand 3 times before 1.7. Wtf.
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  14. #14
    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drsharp View Post
    3 Watch clerics rage as we roll on their gear.
    actually not as big of a problem as expected, the clerics got a taste with their armor of what we got with offhands and jewelry, so at least in my guild the clerics have been pretty understanding about it. (doesn't make it any less S***ty though)
    Windstorm - Mage - Faeblight US
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  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Bumping for justice.

    I'm holding off on changing much gear for a while until it's clear whether mage itemization will be tweaked again or just stay a jumbled mess.

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