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Thread: Necromancer and Elementalist

  1. #1
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    Default Necromancer and Elementalist

    Mages are the only calling that has two pet trees. This presents a bit of situation when it comes to the souls that those souls can partner with and the synergy that each soul offers the calling. Keep in mind, these suggestions aren't theorycrafted; they're more so to spur along the creative process and create a ground to brainstorm.

    To me, Elementalist uses their pets to increase their own power while Necromancers instead work to increase the power of their pets. Due to this, however, neither soul works well (see: hardly at all) with the other, which is rather odd considering their both pet trees. These talent changes, I think, would allow both Elementalist and Necromancers more options, giving those players who actually enjoy playing with a pet more ways to be creative.

    Elementalist:
    Crystalline Missiles, Elemental Link and Ashen Armor should include all Mage pets, instead of just Elementals in order to promote Necromancer synergy.

    Elemental Forces should affect both the Mage and any summoned pets, including things like Split Personality, Empty the Crypts or Swarming Flames. The change to Spotter's Order crippled specs like the Zoomancer (Necro/Dom) which I know several people found enjoyable. This would mimic that while at the same time limiting the duration due to charge consumption.

    Weathered should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50%, and all Elemental pets by an additional 1-2% per point spent in the Elementalist tree, encouraging Necromancer synergy.

    Sacrifice should be changed so that the summoned Elemental gives a particular effect when sacrificed, along with being healed for 25% (i.e. Earth Elemental summons a shield, Air Elemental gives a spellpower boost, Water Elemental gives an immunity to crowd control effects). As it stands, an Elementalist has very little reason to Sacrifice their pet, especially while soloing.

    Fiery Assault currently is a weak AoE that consumes charge, yet has a long cooldown. Perhaps it could be made better if its target limit were removed, making it a unique spell in the Elementalist's arsenal, especially given the soul's weak AoE capabilities.

    Synergize is an excellent canidate for a boost in synergy, and would probably be amazing if it switched places with Sacrifice and changed to allow any permanent pet to gain the buff.

    Tempest could be changed to better reflect how an Elementalist works. Alongside the increase in crit damage, the same affect could be applied to the pet. Both the pet and the Mage's crit damage could be increased by an additional 1% per point in the Elementalist tree over 36. This would really work to boost the Elementalist's single target, while the numbers could be adjusted to prevent its simple rotation from being the absolute best. As the game progresses, it would become more and more viable a soul, but its lack of mobile damage would mean that movement fights would require another choice.

    Necromancer:
    Death's Ally should be slightly changed, increasing the Mage's death damage by 5% and any pet's damage by the same amount, instead of limiting it strickly to death damage.

    Consumption should be changed into a two point talent, giving 5-10% mana regen.

    Greater Consumption should be reduced to 1 point changed to have a chance to remove an additional buff.

    Essence Link should allow any pet to proc the heal instead of just undead pets.
    Donate Bones should be changed. It should be a triggered explosion that spreads Deathly Calling in addition to its current effects.

    Life Bane should switch places with Master Chirurgeon.

    Master Chirurgeon, like Weathered, should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50% and all Necromancer pets by an additional amount per point spent. The two talents should be allowed to stack.


    I'm not stating that all, or even most of these changes are required. I most certainly don't want either soul to become the absolute go-to soul for DPS. What I do want is for players to be able to choose and be able to have more options to have fun. I believe that fun starts first in how the class plays and interacts with itself and others, and the numbers follow behind it. No one wants a top-DPS spec that just presses one button.
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  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Morguloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Mages are the only calling that has two pet trees. This presents a bit of situation when it comes to the souls that those souls can partner with and the synergy that each soul offers the calling. Keep in mind, these suggestions aren't theorycrafted; they're more so to spur along the creative process and create a ground to brainstorm.

    To me, Elementalist uses their pets to increase their own power while Necromancers instead work to increase the power of their pets. Due to this, however, neither soul works well (see: hardly at all) with the other, which is rather odd considering their both pet trees. These talent changes, I think, would allow both Elementalist and Necromancers more options, giving those players who actually enjoy playing with a pet more ways to be creative.

    Elementalist:
    Crystalline Missiles, Elemental Link and Ashen Armor should include all Mage pets, instead of just Elementals in order to promote Necromancer synergy.

    Elemental Forces should affect both the Mage and any summoned pets, including things like Split Personality, Empty the Crypts or Swarming Flames. The change to Spotter's Order crippled specs like the Zoomancer (Necro/Dom) which I know several people found enjoyable. This would mimic that while at the same time limiting the duration due to charge consumption.

    Weathered should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50%, and all Elemental pets by an additional 1-2% per point spent in the Elementalist tree, encouraging Necromancer synergy.

    Sacrifice should be changed so that the summoned Elemental gives a particular effect when sacrificed, along with being healed for 25% (i.e. Earth Elemental summons a shield, Air Elemental gives a spellpower boost, Water Elemental gives an immunity to crowd control effects). As it stands, an Elementalist has very little reason to Sacrifice their pet, especially while soloing.

    Fiery Assault currently is a weak AoE that consumes charge, yet has a long cooldown. Perhaps it could be made better if its target limit were removed, making it a unique spell in the Elementalist's arsenal, especially given the soul's weak AoE capabilities.

    Synergize is an excellent canidate for a boost in synergy, and would probably be amazing if it switched places with Sacrifice and changed to allow any permanent pet to gain the buff.

    Tempest could be changed to better reflect how an Elementalist works. Alongside the increase in crit damage, the same affect could be applied to the pet. Both the pet and the Mage's crit damage could be increased by an additional 1% per point in the Elementalist tree over 36. This would really work to boost the Elementalist's single target, while the numbers could be adjusted to prevent its simple rotation from being the absolute best. As the game progresses, it would become more and more viable a soul, but its lack of mobile damage would mean that movement fights would require another choice.

    Necromancer:
    Death's Ally should be slightly changed, increasing the Mage's death damage by 5% and any pet's damage by the same amount, instead of limiting it strickly to death damage.

    Consumption should be changed into a two point talent, giving 5-10% mana regen.

    Greater Consumption should be reduced to 1 point changed to have a chance to remove an additional buff.

    Essence Link should allow any pet to proc the heal instead of just undead pets.
    Donate Bones should be changed. It should be a triggered explosion that spreads Deathly Calling in addition to its current effects.

    Life Bane should switch places with Master Chirurgeon.

    Master Chirurgeon, like Weathered, should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50% and all Necromancer pets by an additional amount per point spent. The two talents should be allowed to stack.


    I'm not stating that all, or even most of these changes are required. I most certainly don't want either soul to become the absolute go-to soul for DPS. What I do want is for players to be able to choose and be able to have more options to have fun. I believe that fun starts first in how the class plays and interacts with itself and others, and the numbers follow behind it. No one wants a top-DPS spec that just presses one button.
    No way, mixing Necro and Elem souls is blashpemy. They're completely different types of mages. They shouldn't be mixable. They SHOULD each be buffed and streamlined a bit with more up front burst and more pet dmg.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    We're also the only calling that still has a PVP soul.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumelar View Post
    We're also the only calling that still has a PVP soul.
    If you're referring to the Dominator soul, I fail to see how it's a PvP soul.
    Sure, it is usually most effective in PvP, but none of it's abilities are "PvP only".

  5. #5
    Ascendant Inixia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergone View Post
    If you're referring to the Dominator soul, I fail to see how it's a PvP soul.
    Sure, it is usually most effective in PvP, but none of it's abilities are "PvP only".
    it has very little use in any pve settings (currently and historically) as more than a gimmick spec attached to a main soul for reflect/split/or silence. Dominator is pretty much a pvp soul...
    even though it doesn't have any abilities that explicitly say they are only usable against players many of them have immunities against them in pve (most of its ccs and debuffs) or have ccs attached to dmg effects making it awkward to slip into pve rotations (like on shackle) producing a similar effect... not to mention the old chastise and draining presences, before they were changed into the current traitorous influence and mass betrayal, DID specify they were vs players only.
    Last edited by Inixia; 02-11-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Mages are the only calling that has two pet trees. This presents a bit of situation when it comes to the souls that those souls can partner with and the synergy that each soul offers the calling. Keep in mind, these suggestions aren't theorycrafted; they're more so to spur along the creative process and create a ground to brainstorm.

    To me, Elementalist uses their pets to increase their own power while Necromancers instead work to increase the power of their pets. Due to this, however, neither soul works well (see: hardly at all) with the other, which is rather odd considering their both pet trees. These talent changes, I think, would allow both Elementalist and Necromancers more options, giving those players who actually enjoy playing with a pet more ways to be creative.

    <Cut Text>


    I'm not stating that all, or even most of these changes are required. I most certainly don't want either soul to become the absolute go-to soul for DPS. What I do want is for players to be able to choose and be able to have more options to have fun. I believe that fun starts first in how the class plays and interacts with itself and others, and the numbers follow behind it. No one wants a top-DPS spec that just presses one button.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...olo-build.html

    I still use this spec.

    "Due to this, however, neither soul works well (see: hardly at all) with the other, which is rather odd considering their both pet trees. "

    Actually they work very well together. Even after patch 1. 7 I can still bring a nerco/ele into an expert dungeon clear trash and down some of the bosses solo.

    "
    Weathered should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50%, and all Elemental pets by an additional 1-2% per point spent in the Elementalist tree, encouraging Necromancer synergy."


    My tank pets, either ele or necro, already can have 9k+ life. How much more life do you think they need?

    Once I can get my hands on some cleric tank rings, wand and neck I bet I can get them to 10k life.

    "Fiery Assault currently is a weak AoE that consumes charge, yet has a long cooldown. Perhaps it could be made better if its target limit were removed, making it a unique spell in the Elementalist's arsenal, especially given the soul's weak AoE capabilities."

    It has a 20s CD, I would not really call that "long". Besides it stacks with both Burning Ground and Grave Rot, allowing a nero/ele to stack three AoEs.

    Another nice thing about a necro/ele's AoE is that Burning Ground and Grave Rot are both non-channel ground effects. It works well to rotate Grave Rot > Burning Ground > Soul Purge/Quicken Elements.

    Before they go changing the souls completely, I would just like to see them fix the necro tank pet. Needing charge just to heal your tank pet is a bit lame. Also he should not need stacks of Deathly Calling to do his AoE force nor need Necrosis for his attacks to generate additional aggro. His forces and aggro should work, at least, just like the ele tank pet.
    Guardian <Allegiance> www.allegiance-rift.com/
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  7. #7
    Shadowlander Oomie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Mages are the only calling that has two pet trees. This presents a bit of situation when it comes to the souls that those souls can partner with and the synergy that each soul offers the calling. Keep in mind, these suggestions aren't theorycrafted; they're more so to spur along the creative process and create a ground to brainstorm.

    To me, Elementalist uses their pets to increase their own power while Necromancers instead work to increase the power of their pets. Due to this, however, neither soul works well (see: hardly at all) with the other, which is rather odd considering their both pet trees. These talent changes, I think, would allow both Elementalist and Necromancers more options, giving those players who actually enjoy playing with a pet more ways to be creative.

    Elementalist:
    Crystalline Missiles, Elemental Link and Ashen Armor should include all Mage pets, instead of just Elementals in order to promote Necromancer synergy.

    Elemental Forces should affect both the Mage and any summoned pets, including things like Split Personality, Empty the Crypts or Swarming Flames. The change to Spotter's Order crippled specs like the Zoomancer (Necro/Dom) which I know several people found enjoyable. This would mimic that while at the same time limiting the duration due to charge consumption.

    Weathered should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50%, and all Elemental pets by an additional 1-2% per point spent in the Elementalist tree, encouraging Necromancer synergy.

    Sacrifice should be changed so that the summoned Elemental gives a particular effect when sacrificed, along with being healed for 25% (i.e. Earth Elemental summons a shield, Air Elemental gives a spellpower boost, Water Elemental gives an immunity to crowd control effects). As it stands, an Elementalist has very little reason to Sacrifice their pet, especially while soloing.

    Fiery Assault currently is a weak AoE that consumes charge, yet has a long cooldown. Perhaps it could be made better if its target limit were removed, making it a unique spell in the Elementalist's arsenal, especially given the soul's weak AoE capabilities.

    Synergize is an excellent canidate for a boost in synergy, and would probably be amazing if it switched places with Sacrifice and changed to allow any permanent pet to gain the buff.

    Tempest could be changed to better reflect how an Elementalist works. Alongside the increase in crit damage, the same affect could be applied to the pet. Both the pet and the Mage's crit damage could be increased by an additional 1% per point in the Elementalist tree over 36. This would really work to boost the Elementalist's single target, while the numbers could be adjusted to prevent its simple rotation from being the absolute best. As the game progresses, it would become more and more viable a soul, but its lack of mobile damage would mean that movement fights would require another choice.

    Necromancer:
    Death's Ally should be slightly changed, increasing the Mage's death damage by 5% and any pet's damage by the same amount, instead of limiting it strickly to death damage.

    Consumption should be changed into a two point talent, giving 5-10% mana regen.

    Greater Consumption should be reduced to 1 point changed to have a chance to remove an additional buff.

    Essence Link should allow any pet to proc the heal instead of just undead pets.
    Donate Bones should be changed. It should be a triggered explosion that spreads Deathly Calling in addition to its current effects.

    Life Bane should switch places with Master Chirurgeon.

    Master Chirurgeon, like Weathered, should increase the health of all Mage pets by 50% and all Necromancer pets by an additional amount per point spent. The two talents should be allowed to stack.


    I'm not stating that all, or even most of these changes are required. I most certainly don't want either soul to become the absolute go-to soul for DPS. What I do want is for players to be able to choose and be able to have more options to have fun. I believe that fun starts first in how the class plays and interacts with itself and others, and the numbers follow behind it. No one wants a top-DPS spec that just presses one button.
    Not that I agree or disagree with this
    I do feel like being a pain and say that you could have consolidated 90% of that and said to just remove the "undead" and "elemental" requirements off the pet talents/buffs

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    I dont think the 2 pet souls dealing with 2 entirely different kind of pets should be able to work well together. It just doesnt make sense to me. I can see a Necromancer Pyro working together but Deathly calling kind of hinders that. The only calling that really goes with it is the warlock. You can do a 51 point build and spec into pyro and ele for reducing your cast speed and crit chance but other than that theres nothing.

    Elementalists on the other hand can spec into pyro and caller pretty well. I havent really played elementalist much so I cant really put in any input.

    Necromancers really dont need much. They need better synergy with other souls, a good way to use up charge, and maybe a pet buff. With my gear though my pet is critting for as much as I do and the attacks it has kind of works like warlock dots.

    -Necrosis could use a buff. It could possibly be linked to Epidemic to make the owner increases pet damage and pet increases owner damage it seems they were going for.
    -Corpse explosion could be turned into a core rotational ability by making it pull a corpse from the ground and detonating it. You would just need to make it so you can choose where the corpse will show up which would make it a skill based ability but fun. Keep a cooldown on it and give it a cast time.
    -Last grasp while interesting could use a pve buff. Make it where instead of healing applying another stack make it so that every other attack or ability applies another stack since we already have a healing debuff ability.

    In the synergy department I dont know what you could do other than making Death's Ally increase ability damage by a certain ammount but other than that I really dont see a great way of doing it other than changing some of the early abilities. They could possibly take out Revivfy and replace it with some kind of buff or something. It would just have to be something different. Maybe increase focus by a certain ammount?

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