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Thread: not a QQ thread! - halp!

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Drizty's Avatar
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    Default not a QQ thread! - halp!

    hello! - like the title states i am not trying to QQ but rather just asking for help against rogues in pvp. I find that 90% of the time unless the raid is around me, when i run into a rogue i get absolutely droped on my face! ( i flicker away and sometimes i am already at 50% or less then they just blink on me and finish me off ). I figured it was either 3 things -

    1) the rogue either out-gears me like crazy!
    2) I suck?
    3) the recent patch has made mages rubbish and i should just hold out until its fixed?

    i am running a 51 - 5 - 10 pyro archon lock build i find anything other then this is very sub-par damage and burst ( in saying that tho i havent fully tried every guild there is to know ).

    so my question is to the mage community imagine you have just been jumped by a rogue and you are alone, idealy how would you make the fight go? and if you use a different soul setup then mine feel free to have your input to!

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drizty View Post
    hello! - like the title states i am not trying to QQ but rather just asking for help against rogues in pvp. I find that 90% of the time unless the raid is around me, when i run into a rogue i get absolutely droped on my face! ( i flicker away and sometimes i am already at 50% or less then they just blink on me and finish me off ). I figured it was either 3 things -

    1) the rogue either out-gears me like crazy!
    2) I suck?
    3) the recent patch has made mages rubbish and i should just hold out until its fixed?

    i am running a 51 - 5 - 10 pyro archon lock build i find anything other then this is very sub-par damage and burst ( in saying that tho i havent fully tried every guild there is to know ).

    so my question is to the mage community imagine you have just been jumped by a rogue and you are alone, idealy how would you make the fight go? and if you use a different soul setup then mine feel free to have your input to!
    Highest range burst dps calling is no longer mages. Clerics are the new steel cannon in Inquisitard spec.
    If you want to do better in PvP, go with something Dominator. Even chloro is so bad now that clerics are the only real calling thats capable of main healing in PvP.

    Mages are more like an assist calling.
    Current viable pvp spec imo...
    Pyrodom, glass cannon with decent burst.
    Chlorodom, very balanced spec with tons of tools and decent survivability at the cost of having no DPS.
    Chlorolock, very bad damage wise now, you can still play it if you like to tank a rogue or 2.
    51 Dominator is very good in group PvP but you are fragile.

    Some facts you gotta consider.
    Clerics heals are NOT affected by valor of himself or the target, only healing debuff.
    Chloro Heal outside of Bloom/Florish/Essence Surge/NH are all affected by valor AND healing debuff.
    Assuming target has valor that reduce incoming damage by 50% and you got a healing debuff on you for another 50 you will only heal yourself and your raid for 25% of your normal heal. Clerics healing is 100% more effective than chloro heals and they have more tricks up their sleeves when it comes to healing, and of course the highest ranged burst dps in game if they choose to.

    If you have bad gear play 51 dom to gimp their entire raid otherwise theres not much choice outside the 4 I mentioned.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Drizty's Avatar
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    so with 51 dominator what would you surrgest putting the rest of the 15 points?, i did pyro for some extra dam however i feel my damage is just brushed off and ignored to be honest. would i be better going warlock for some extra hp and opp. procs?

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Ah the doom'n'gloom'repent'n'go'dom brigade is already here I see.


    To deal with rogues there are several factors and situations : Primarily it will come down to CC and positioning, luckily the pyro has varied CC in addition to good damage, which is why it is still a viable 1.7 dps soul despite what crybabys tear up about on the forums.

    Yes you will be killed as a pyro, you will also put out hurt and stay alive more often then not if you use good positioning, CC and kiting.

    But like I said it will largely come down to CC and positioning / kiting, and you need to think of it in terms of that especially CC and CC breakers / immunities.

    For instance if your opening move is to use Blink, no wonder you are having problems that is one of your valuable CC breakers; assuming you are fighting the FOTM(s) NB/RS he will close that gap in a GCD or two and you've tied a hand behind your back. It's a bit like a game of chess with CC / CC breakers and you have to treat it as such.

    I recommend as soon as he's on you in melee range to use Flashfire. A FOTM(s) NB / RS will have two CC breakers, the blink one and Break Free; if he uses either of those two right after Flashfire THEN use your blink and you're both down one CC breaker and more less at a draw. At this point you should go for a snare / root CC to not make him too immune to everything via diminishing returns; so use lockdown (underrated 90% 8 second gtaoe snare) or Burning Bonds, I'd recommend using lockdown first and save sweet sweet Burning Bonds for when he is out of CC Breakers. If he then uses his last CC breaker your up on him in the fight, just pop to the other diminishing returns pool and hit him with your disarm then get some range and hit him back in the snare / root pool with whatever you didn't use before and get some serious distance on him.

    Always remember his blinks are a 15-20(5 on some?) range but your spells are 30 so get range on him as job #1 keep lighting him up on the move as best you can, on the move damaging while kiting is where a 38ish / 28ish pyrolock will have the advantage over a 51 pyro with more spells to fire on the move + opportunity procs; although 51 pyros can pop Ground of Strength and Heatwave here which at times is the best way to take out the rest of the rogue's health once you've been battling a while.


    I don't feel like writing out anymore; this should give you the idea of what to do to survive him long enough to finish him off or get help from teammates, if it doesn't just jump on the dom bandwagon or whatever you need to do.
    Last edited by Nebmai; 02-08-2012 at 03:44 AM. Reason: gah I type too fast

  5. #5
    Shadowlander Drizty's Avatar
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    thank you very much nebmai!, was exactly what i was after!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drizty View Post
    hello! - like the title states i am not trying to QQ but rather just asking for help against rogues in pvp. I find that 90% of the time unless the raid is around me, when i run into a rogue i get absolutely droped on my face! ( i flicker away and sometimes i am already at 50% or less then they just blink on me and finish me off ). I figured it was either 3 things -

    1) the rogue either out-gears me like crazy!
    2) I suck?
    3) the recent patch has made mages rubbish and i should just hold out until its fixed?

    i am running a 51 - 5 - 10 pyro archon lock build i find anything other then this is very sub-par damage and burst ( in saying that tho i havent fully tried every guild there is to know ).

    so my question is to the mage community imagine you have just been jumped by a rogue and you are alone, idealy how would you make the fight go? and if you use a different soul setup then mine feel free to have your input to!
    You are not the only one having problems with them (Good rogues eats me alive, but i don't think it's beacouse mages are so "bad" (sure i would love to be able to rely on all my CC abilities all the time but i just think that rogues are a little overbuffed atm.), i suggest you go 31Chloro/35Dom and just outlast them while the Ghosts finish them off for you, that what i do and i been able to kill em even when i had 2k ms ping like this. Go Chloro/Dom then atleast you will be a problem for them the next 30 sec.

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drizty View Post
    . I find that 90% of the time unless the raid is around me, when i run into a rogue i get absolutely droped on my face!
    If you are doing a full damage spec, you basically need to not put yourself in a position where you don't have a raid around you. It's unfortunate as no other DPS calling is as dependent as we are on other people, but there it is. Know who your healers are and make sure you keep in LoS of them.
    Rank 8, 11/11

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    Regardless of what spec you play, because of the issues others have already mentioned, be smart about using your mage's defensive cooldown -- running away to get help. Anticipate when someone who burst you down previously is going to target you, watch for groups running around focusing fire and be smart about knowing when to mount up and get the heck out of Dodge.

    Regardless, you want either dom or chloro for a cleanse, because you pretty much need a self cleanse to survive heal debuffs and dots.

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  9. #9
    Ascendant Vihar's Avatar
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    It is very, very tough to defend yourself against rogues as a Pyro.

    You just have to accept it.

    You could put in a second build that you swap between that and Pyro.

    There are many builds you could go with...it's a matter of taste and your gear/rank.

    Personally, I would go something like this;

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...qhk.MsVuVkoMbz

    I can't say that it is the undisputed best build vs rogues, but I can vouch for the fact that it works.
    Otherwise known as Morganlefae

  10. #10
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Rogues are tough.
    Among all the other callings, rogues definitely have all the tools necessary to beat a mage.
    So don't wory about it too much.
    best thing you can do is what was mentioned above.
    Utilize your CD's properly, or respec something more defensive.

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