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Thread: Balance, cast times and Burning Purpose

  1. #1
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    Default Balance, cast times and Burning Purpose

    So we all know that the 51 pt archon ability is awesome.
    Unfortunately, it is not even in its 'awesomeness' to the various soul classes, and this leads to part of the reason why pyros in particular benefit so much.

    As we all know, instant casts do not benefit from burning purpose.
    Spells that have their cast times reduced to below their GCD also do not benefit.

    Now, we look at the main spam spells of various souls.
    1. Fireball... obviously a crowd favourite. Has many talents boosting it tremendously. At 2s cast time, with burning purpose, it gets the full benefit. On top of that, it still has breathing room for further cast time buffs (eg. surging flare).

    2. Crystalline missile - Fully talented, it gives a 0.5s cast time reduction (which is actually really good), and a very significant buff to pet dmg. CM has also recently been buffed to have a coefficient of 40. Unfortunately, it does not benefit at all from BP.... and with the 4 pc crystal, neither does lightning strike.

    3. Void bolt - decent spell, refreshes vampiric, at high levels can hit quite hard with DoTs.... post cast speed buff though, it no longer benefits from BP.

    4. Plague bolt - Benefits from BP, but its inherent state talented is a bit weak.

    5. Pillaging stones - Benefits from BP, great spell untalented, no change to the spell itself talented (you just get more stats).


    CM/Void bolt in particular would have benefited tremendously. At a 1.2-1.3s cast vs a a 1.5 GCD, the difference is significant. Ironically, spark is in the pyro tree, benefiting all the instant casts.

    Off the top of my head, I would actually suggest increasing the cast time (post talented) of CM/VB, but having the talents increase their dmg as well so that net dmg is the same, but they would gain the benefit of BP. This is a 'nerf' for PvP though since longer cast times are a pain.

    Another suggestion is for BP to reduce GCD in tandem with reducing cast times. This would help instant casts as well (eg. DoT's/HoT'setc). However, this has the effect of buffing the raid significantly, and buffing wars/rogues significantly more. As in stands, mages are competitive partially because BP is a buff mainly for casters.

    I believe looking at this discrepancy is a first baby step towards making some of the other souls more viable. It is definitely not a complete solution, but resolving this first is relatively simple and won't be an over buff, with subsequent issues being tackled later.

  2. #2
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    No comments at all? Its a big reason why pyro is pretty much the only viable spec (not the only reason of course).

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Snoozey's Avatar
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    I don't think Burning Purpose is the problem. I think it is the pyro tree itself is just much better then the other trees. The only PvE I have done is at launch T1-T2 and stopped at greenscale due to my guild not being ready. So this is just a general observation not an experienced post. I pretty much only PvP
    Last edited by Snoozey; 02-09-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozey View Post
    I don't think Burning Purpose is the problem. I think it is the pyro tree itself is just much better then the other trees. The only PvE I have done is at launch T1-T2 and stopped at greenscale due to my guild not being ready. So this is just a general observation not an experienced post. I pretty much only PvP
    Actually, if you think about it, it is a pretty big reason.
    Assuming you had spark, crystalline missile and void bolt would be at 1.3s (1.2s if you had ignition).
    This is huge as it translates to a 13-20% dmg increase (multiplicative) to a spell that you are spamming.

    Making changes (making the talents reduce the cast time by a lesser degree but add an increase dmg component to make it the same non-raid buffed) so that these spells will get the full benefit of burning purpose is a good 1st step in making the other trees more raid worthy. More needs to be done (lock is getting looked at for next patch), but I strongly believe that addressing the 'spam spell' is crucial.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Angryweasel's Avatar
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    You use Power drain to activate BP no reason to use any other ability for that.
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  6. #6
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    If BP was the reason for pyro being so good it would be reflected in the dummy parses this however is not the case.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser LatsyrcMoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    4. Plague bolt - Benefits from BP, but its inherent state talented is a bit weak.
    Just a little Nit-pick here. 44+necro receives no real benefit from BP either as nearly all of your bolts will be instant cast.

    Also, BP affects Cleric healers FAR more than it does mages(excluding the archon casting it that is).

  8. #8
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    Archon is great for raid groups but isn't much fun when it comes to doing much. Man I can't stand those long cast times.
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  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Ramea's Avatar
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    would be nice if Burning Purpose would also decrease the GCD of everyone a little. Spells with cast time benefit less but they benefit from the casting speed boost.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angryweasel View Post
    You use Power drain to activate BP no reason to use any other ability for that.
    Huh? I think you are confused.
    -------------------

    Anyway, alot of the points raised are valid, and as I have mentioned, it is not THE solution to all soul imbalances. Rather as a rather glaring start point.
    BP is one of the main advantages casters get in terms of raid buffs over non-casters. However, there are just quite a lot of souls which do not benefit from it at all, pyro being the main beneficiary.
    Last edited by masakari81; 02-10-2012 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #11
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    this is not near the difference you're thinking it is
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKillian View Post
    this is not near the difference you're thinking it is
    How much would you estimate it to be?

    As mentioned, estimate is a 13-20% DPS increase in the said spam spell. This spam spell makes up about 1/4 -1/3 of your total DPS. So it probably works out to be an overall 5-6% dps gain (slightly more so taking into account void decimiation and elemental fury).

  13. #13
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    Out of edit timer.

    I've done comparison tests before, and it is surprising how strong crystalline and void bolt is. If they had the full GCD reduction, the dmg over cast time is actually equivalent or even slightly better than fireball (even after taking into account 30+ pts in burning bright).... however, where the spells lose out is the 15% crit chance and combust.... they have their own secondary effects, refresh life leech and stronger elemental hits - both of which are not nearly as good of course.

  14. #14
    General of Telara Relair's Avatar
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    Its ridiculous how biased everything is toward pyros. As mentioned they're the only dps mage that really gets any benefit from BP and the only one with a reduced gcd. Its stupid to even have the soul system when they've made pyro mandatory for pve and pvp both.

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