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Thread: Top Specs in 1.7 - Anything Change?

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    Default Top Specs in 1.7 - Anything Change?

    I'm really not the one to be asking these questions, but it seems my guildies are far too lazy to get on the forums! So, semi-informed cleric here asking some potentially scrubby questions.

    A few of our guild mages are just coming into their 4 piece bonuses and eagerly snatching up their warlock crystals for the Defile damage bonus. With the recent nerf to the crystal, is 38/28 still the top DPS spec, or are there better options out there?

    Basically, what should we be running once we get our 4 piece bonuses?


    Oh, on a side note - I've read about 36chloro 30lock on Bluedots - it's supposed to be top AoE heals, correct? I haven't been able to convince any of our mages to try this spec, but if it's better AoE heals I would love to have a few running it on Sicaron tonight.

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    Rift Disciple Alyze's Avatar
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    BUMP!!

    defilemancer still the top thing? been playing with SC/Pyro (lovin it!) but definately hoping theres other options to competitive dps or is defilemancer still the only way to go?
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    RIFT Guide Writer DaddyDaz's Avatar
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    yeah 38/28 is still solid if you have the 4pc, 36/30 is also a good build. sc/pyro or sc/ele for aoe, but i suggest sc/ele for all but the squid, but even then it's all about what your role is.

    edit: when i say 36/30 i mean pyro/lock. i don't chloro in raid.
    Last edited by DaddyDaz; 02-06-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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    Imo, 36/30 chloro/lock isnt all its cracked up to be. But, if there were ever a fight to use it, it would be sicaron. Ive not used it in raid, but the ST damage is definitely better than 51 chloro. Void life mobility makes 51 chloro the only viable healing spec in 90% of fights. And if your already 51, you might as well synth the tank. Just imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyze View Post
    BUMP!!

    defilemancer still the top thing? been playing with SC/Pyro (lovin it!) but definately hoping theres other options to competitive dps or is defilemancer still the only way to go?
    I suggest first to read up a bit more into ur spec. You compared ur aoe dps spec with a heavy singletarget spec.

    4 36\30 builds with firestorm n firearmor + 1 stormcaller is better (read flexible) then 2 pyro/caller and 3 38\28pyros.
    Their total dps is also higher. A stormcaller aoes harder and if u are normal hk geared, no fight requires ultra stdps.

    1pyrocaller on the squid like somebody said here should be a good, i know guilds who use it. However we dont ve one, using stormcaller too.

    Imo pyrocaller is just like chlorolock, its fun to play around with but if its dps u need, stack 1 more dps, need healing, stack an extra full healer.

    Example
    2 pyrocallers and 1 cabi maybe on silas.. The callers switch between aoe and stdps. But 1 38\28 one stormcaller n 1 cabi would be higher dps, stormcallers stdps is not far behind pyrocaller when played correct (same difficulty as 38/28).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyze View Post
    BUMP!!

    defilemancer still the top thing? been playing with SC/Pyro (lovin it!) but definately hoping theres other options to competitive dps or is defilemancer still the only way to go?
    SC/Pyro is great.
    For pure single use 38/28 Lock/Pyro (once you have 4pc HK). For any fight involving 1) mobility 2) AOE 3) significant target switching SC/Pyro performs great -- it's also the better spec compared to SC/Ele outside 10s of Hailstorm/Lightning Storm, and even there the difference is rather slight.
    It also suffers much less when having no Archon around, which happens often for MM / 10 mans. In particular 38/28 with it many upkeeps is a real pain to play there.

    Oh... first Chloro = 51 (except Chloro/Pyro for fast dispells like Stilgen), every other should run 38/28 Lock/Chloro, cause the DPS gain is huge compared to the little HPS loss on VS spam. But usually an Icar will be the better choice once your have your first Chloro set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    SC/Pyro is great.
    For pure single use 38/28 Lock/Pyro (once you have 4pc HK). For any fight involving 1) mobility 2) AOE 3) significant target switching SC/Pyro performs great -- it's also the better spec compared to SC/Ele outside 10s of Hailstorm/Lightning Storm, and even there the difference is rather slight.
    It also suffers much less when having no Archon around, which happens often for MM / 10 mans. In particular 38/28 with it many upkeeps is a real pain to play there.
    stormcallers aoe is about 15% better then pyrocaller, wouldnt call it marginal (when using iceblast, charge prio on field etc). And its only usefull for silas, matron and the squid. And no mobile aoe is needed.
    if you need to switch targets often wouldnt u then agree u stacked to much aoe players?
    Oh and yeh, pyrocaller for 10men is nice ;)

    Oh... first Chloro = 51 (except Chloro/Pyro for fast dispells like Stilgen), every other should run 38/28 Lock/Chloro, cause the DPS gain is huge compared to the little HPS loss on VS spam. But usually an Icar will be the better choice once your have your first Chloro set.
    38chlorodefilelock is nice, but the rotation is rather complex for the 15% extra healing. I do use it sometimes when im bored, but i miss the synthisis during oh **** moments, and my energy buddies whine about living energy and runspeed ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge-RaideR View Post
    stormcallers aoe is about 15% better then pyrocaller, wouldnt call it marginal (when using iceblast, charge prio on field etc). And its only usefull for silas, matron and the squid. And no mobile aoe is needed.
    if you need to switch targets often wouldnt u then agree u stacked to much aoe players?
    Oh and yeh, pyrocaller for 10men is nice ;)
    The base rotation of SC/Pyro is way faster than that for SC/Ele
    FL-LF: 2.3s vs 3s
    2xFL-LF: 3.6s vs 4.5s
    3xFL-LF: 4.9s vs 6s
    This more than cancels out Tempest, and that isn't its only advantage.

    You also have a high base damage due ImpFB & GOP (which at HK levels more than compensates for your pet), double mana regen (which you will need in longer fights) and as soon as ST is relevant (if even for short times) 1s CB spam beats anything that SC/Ele has to offer.

    And about target switching... it's not about AOE. Just take Mages on Zilas, Arcane Somethings on Garau, Stingers on Aky, etc. There are plently of fights with add management, and unless it dies to something like 3 FBs SC/Pyro is the best Mage spec to deal with it.

    38chlorodefilelock is nice, but the rotation is rather complex for the 15% extra healing. I do use it sometimes when im bored, but i miss the synthisis during oh **** moments, and my energy buddies whine about living energy and runspeed ;)
    The rotations is dead simple... mash one button and reapply Defile & DT every 16s. Heal in between, and if you've done much healing refresh LL with VB instead of just mashing your one button.
    You did get redicolously great heals in 1.6, but that's gone in 1.7 - still is by far better DPS than VS spamming as 36/30. But again, this is only if you already have one Chloro -- single Chloro = 51 Chloro.

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    I wouldn't say it more than cancels out tempest/+5% crit.

    SC/Ele still trumps SC/pyro consistently in AoE fights. However, the difference is probably ~ 10% or less, and in return, SC/pyro gives you a decent ST rotation while SC/Ele just sinks.... better 2nd class than dead last.

    SC/pyro has issues in that it is very mana intensive though. I find I use up my mana faster than I can burn through pots.... so am increasingly favoring points in archon for mana regen since my crit rate is so high anyway, although I sacrifice dmg.


    EDIT: SC/pyro took a big hit in DPS with GoP becoming additive instead of multiplicative as SC is already so dependent on +% already.
    Last edited by masakari81; 02-06-2012 at 04:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    I wouldn't say it more than cancels out tempest/+5% crit.

    SC/Ele still trumps SC/pyro consistently in AoE fights. However, the difference is probably ~ 10% or less, and in return, SC/pyro gives you a decent ST rotation while SC/Ele just sinks.... better 2nd class than dead last.
    Just cast time wise SC/Pyro beats SC/Ele for their core rotation by 22% (4-5 targets) to 30% (2 targets). During CDs (largely just Hailstorm/Lightning Storm) SC/Ele is slightly ahead, but thats 8s out of 30s -- and for pure AOE the better base damage mod for SC/Pyro helps a lot.
    And I don't know any fight outside pure trash where there's pure AOE. Maintaining IS and Icicle on the main target already puts SC/Pyro ahead by a full CB, and that's hard to catch up within 10-12s for SC/Ele.

    SC/pyro has issues in that it is very mana intensive though. I find I use up my mana faster than I can burn through pots.... so am increasingly favoring points in archon for mana regen since my crit rate is so high anyway, although I sacrifice dmg.
    I get by just fine even on Aky thanks to 100% from GOP. (That's about 15k mana returned over the whole fight. I use three Tonics, although I probably could get by using only two after P1 & P2.)
    I'd rather hate to waste precious charge, a building point and time* on channeling. (* Only downtime I have is ~5s during submerge of Akylios during P3).

    EDIT: SC/pyro took a big hit in DPS with GoP becoming additive instead of multiplicative as SC is already so dependent on +% already.
    For AOEing targets it was actually only a slight loss. Highest mod is +85% (30% AOE +30% Hypo +20% 2/3 Ele +5% Lightning). Before GOP was an effektive mod of +18.5%, now it's 15%.
    For ST where IS comes into play you're right - but there SC/Ele stinks... hard.

    Or to put it another way... I did ~3450 DPS going full AOE on our Perfect Akylios kill, taking 17min just this ID, and that's without a Relic. There's still some upwards space, like having a Warrior tank Jornura for more AOE, me still having some room to improve, the gear, etc. I'd like to see a SC/Ele compare to that number in 1.7.
    I don't doubt that there are some edge situations where SC/Ele beats SC/Pyro... considering all existing 20man, 10man and MM boss fights in the game I'd be hard pressed to come up with a single one. Best guess is full time AOEing adds on Prime and maybe Matron/Gaurath if your raid is absolutely slacking on AOE. But for me, that doesn't justify taking SC/Ele over SC/Pyro in any way.
    Last edited by lgw; 02-06-2012 at 04:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    The base rotation of SC/Pyro is way faster than that for SC/Ele
    FL-LF: 2.3s vs 3s
    2xFL-LF: 3.6s vs 4.5s
    3xFL-LF: 4.9s vs 6s
    This more than cancels out Tempest, and that isn't its only advantage.

    You also have a high base damage due ImpFB & GOP (which at HK levels more than compensates for your pet), double mana regen (which you will need in longer fights) and as soon as ST is relevant (if even for short times) 1s CB spam beats anything that SC/Ele has to offer.
    Mashin 2buttons is indeed ultra simpel, and ur way faster on ur avg dps. But yeh i just use stormcallers in my raid as heavy artillary, fulltime aoe. Just one maximum, n we got guildies who zone out pressing 2 buttons.

    And about target switching... it's not about AOE. Just take Mages on Zilas, Arcane Somethings on Garau, Stingers on Aky, etc. There are plently of fights with add management, and unless it dies to something like 3 FBs SC/Pyro is the best Mage spec to deal with it.
    .to deal with when you want the bosses as fast as possible. Your probably goin with senticars and i think even the beastmaster for 10% extra dps.
    I think thats the line between letting ur guildies play what they want, and I only interfere if i think we miss utility\aoe\stdps\healing.

    The rotations is dead simple... mash one button and reapply Defile & DT every 16s. Heal in between, and if you've done much healing refresh LL with VB instead of just mashing your one button.
    You did get redicolously great heals in 1.6, but that's gone in 1.7 - still is by far better DPS than VS spamming as 36/30. But again, this is only if you already have one Chloro -- single Chloro = 51 Chloro.
    Dont u wanna do searin vitality as well, and apply all your dots and voidbolt with charge on? and concidering defilew eats charge, its a pain.

    Unless u dont do charge management?
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    I've been playing a bit with 51 pyro/15 archon with the 4p crystal since I've been a bit hungover and not really in any mood to play 38/28 and it was doing pretty well. I think I'd be able to squeeze out an extra 2-300 dps with 38/28 but there is so much extra effort involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge-RaideR View Post
    Mashin 2buttons is indeed ultra simpel, and ur way faster on ur avg dps. But yeh i just use stormcallers in my raid as heavy artillary, fulltime aoe. Just one maximum, n we got guildies who zone out pressing 2 buttons.
    Nice flame... but I'll bite.
    The FL-LF combo still makes up 1/2 to 2/3 of your cast time fully AOEing. Nice try, come again.

    .to deal with when you want the bosses as fast as possible. Your probably goin with senticars and i think even the beastmaster for 10% extra dps.
    I think thats the line between letting ur guildies play what they want, and I only interfere if i think we miss utility\aoe\stdps\healing.
    If you don't care what's best, don't berate me if I tell someone who is actually interested what's best. Actually... you didn't only berate me, but claimed something that's outright wrong.

    Dont u wanna do searin vitality as well, and apply all your dots and voidbolt with charge on? and concidering defilew eats charge, its a pain.

    Unless u dont do charge management?
    SV is a DPS loss w/o Pyro.
    Charge management is absolute Mage 101 - if you can't manage that, better reroll. Hint: Simply turning on EV at 90 and turning at off at 40 (give or take) will lose you 1-2% DPS compared to an absolutely perfect management of Charge. That's about as simple as any Chloro spec gets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    I've been playing a bit with 51 pyro/15 archon with the 4p crystal since I've been a bit hungover and not really in any mood to play 38/28 and it was doing pretty well. I think I'd be able to squeeze out an extra 2-300 dps with 38/28 but there is so much extra effort involved.
    same here, i play the game for fun, some people like it, some dont. And until we cant down a boss because of dps, im not gonna require this spec of my guildies ;)
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    when it was still active the highest parses on riftlogs for matron was from sc/ele. i've run both and will say that imo sc/ele > sc/pyro for raw aoe in a raid setting. i ran sc/ele on zilas and matron and was #2 for all classes on both fights when riftlogs shut down. i was poorly geared for an HK mage too. the # 1 for matron was an sc/ele and a warrior had #1 for zilas but just barely. not tryin to toot my own horn here, but from the rankings, and own my testing, i think sc/ele is a better raw aoe spec (again) in a raid setting. not to say that sc/pyro doesn't have its place, but i'm talkin full time aoe here.

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