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Thread: Ok pyros are better.

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara
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    Default Ok pyros are better.

    We can all stop going dom-happy. It was certainly fun for a while, I had forgotten how good a well placed mass betrayal feels. This hot fix seems to have placed damage back in the right spot, although I think SC might still have taken a pretty nasty hit due to people having reducied incoming AoE damage. I await healing changes now.
    Last edited by ElusiveJones; 02-03-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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    Plane Walker Snoozey's Avatar
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    But what about the necros :[

    I don't have anywhere near the PvP expierence as some people here, but I have been thinking about PvP and necros. The rely mostly on the dots, so what if vengeance increase dot damage more then burst damage? This will counter act clerics chance to dispel on heal without buffing the pve damage. The only flaw with this is I don't know how other classes are with their dots.
    Last edited by Snoozey; 02-03-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Yeah I dunno what to tell you about necro, I think you are SoL. They should probably roll back the soul purge PvP nerf(there was one, right?). Either way, warlock and necro and a hybrid are survivability specs, so they shouldn't ever do the damage a more "glass cannon" spec should, but they definitely need some love, especially necro.
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  4. #4
    Plane Walker Snoozey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveJones View Post
    Yeah I dunno what to tell you about necro, I think you are SoL. They should probably roll back the soul purge PvP nerf(there was one, right?). Either way, warlock and necro and a hybrid are survivability specs, so they shouldn't ever do the damage a more "glass cannon" spec should, but they definitely need some love, especially necro.
    I think you misunderstood or I misunderstood. I know they should not do more damage, but the damage they do now seems too low to be effective. yes, they can survive but the damage is minimal, and the other classes seem to be able to heal more then we can.
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  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Yeah was running black gardens earlier today and have lots of luck with my pyrolock build I've had for a few months now.

  6. #6
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    Ok I dunno if I got lucky for 5 hours earlier when i wrote that, but if we're fine, there's no word to describe what warriors are. Good god...
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    Rift Chaser Proudfeet's Avatar
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    The damage is still lower then it was in 1.6 so I disagree there.I went from missing 200-300 dps to 100-200 dps and I gained over 100 SP sooooo might want to think about raising % more time or atleast looking into and confirming.
    Last edited by Proudfeet; 02-04-2012 at 01:40 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Harmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveJones View Post
    ... warlock and necro and a hybrid are survivability specs, so they shouldn't ever do the damage a more "glass cannon" spec should ...
    I have to disagree with this entirely. The nature of Rift soul trees is that survivability tools are peppered throughout the trees, and you are expected to take them in equal measure with your dps talents for PvP, otherwise you just fall over. Necro has some survivability talents, but the king of survival is Warlock, which is also core to several high output dps builds. Elementalist also has its share of survival as does Chloro. Even Archon can be applied to a decent survival / dps build by giving extra endurance while generating so much mana that you can't effectively be mana-drained.

    There should, IMHO, be three viable play-styles for Rift DPS in PvP:

    Stormcaller AoE
    Pyro single-target nukes
    Necro single-taret dot+nuke with some multi-target DoT capability

    Everything else is fair game for utility, support or healing builds, but those three should always be neck-and-neck for dps.

    Necro needs some serious love for both PvE and PvP, and I don't think the solution is simply to boost raw dps output. There has to be more synergy in the Necro tree. perhaps giving Soul Purge some sort of synergy (e.g. Soul Purge applies a short-duration stacking debuff that increases damage over time effects).

    There are dozens of ways to do it, but it needs to be done. The classic EQ necro / WoW warlock play style is something that any fantasy MMO needs to do well. It's not optional.

  9. #9
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say "fine" pvp is playable but mages are definitely dead last in terms of damage output in a Warfront. We can't do **** to nightbades right now and Clerics are just....Last night I was basically just targeting other mages mostly

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  10. #10
    General of Telara Relair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmil View Post
    I have to disagree with this entirely. The nature of Rift soul trees is that survivability tools are peppered throughout the trees, and you are expected to take them in equal measure with your dps talents for PvP, otherwise you just fall over. Necro has some survivability talents, but the king of survival is Warlock, which is also core to several high output dps builds. Elementalist also has its share of survival as does Chloro. Even Archon can be applied to a decent survival / dps build by giving extra endurance while generating so much mana that you can't effectively be mana-drained.

    There should, IMHO, be three viable play-styles for Rift DPS in PvP:

    Stormcaller AoE
    Pyro single-target nukes
    Necro single-taret dot+nuke with some multi-target DoT capability

    Everything else is fair game for utility, support or healing builds, but those three should always be neck-and-neck for dps.

    Necro needs some serious love for both PvE and PvP, and I don't think the solution is simply to boost raw dps output. There has to be more synergy in the Necro tree. perhaps giving Soul Purge some sort of synergy (e.g. Soul Purge applies a short-duration stacking debuff that increases damage over time effects).

    There are dozens of ways to do it, but it needs to be done. The classic EQ necro / WoW warlock play style is something that any fantasy MMO needs to do well. It's not optional.
    Couldn't agree with you more. In fact necro has almost 0 survivability other than soul purge which is easily silenced and interrupted and los'd. Pyros get shield, flicker, unbreakable root, disarm, multiple stuns..AND do massive amounts more damage. Its just not fair, it says 'offensive soul' the same as pyro, sc, etc. Make pets scale better, make soul purge buff dots and apply stacks of DC every tic or something. Or make looming demise into a super debuff that stacks with everything, and does like -5% sp/ap/crit/dodge/parry/block/armor/resists. That way the hit in dmg would be mitigated a bit and make one needed per raid at least. Or make last gasp do massive dmg even without it stacking from heals, and with the heal stacks its a death sentence if not cleansed. I dunno, something. Surely trion can figure out a way to make more than 1 or 2 souls per class viable.
    Last edited by Relair; 02-04-2012 at 10:32 AM.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Morguloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relair View Post
    Couldn't agree with you more. In fact necro has almost 0 survivability other than soul purge which is easily silenced and interrupted and los'd. Pyros get shield, flicker, unbreakable root, disarm, multiple stuns..AND do massive amounts more damage. Its just not fair, it says 'offensive soul' the same as pyro, sc, etc. Make pets scale better, make soul purge buff dots and apply stacks of DC every tic or something. Or make looming demise into a super debuff that stacks with everything, and does like -5% sp/ap/crit/dodge/parry/block/armor/resists. That way the hit in dmg would be mitigated a bit and make one needed per raid at least. Or make last gasp do massive dmg even without it stacking from heals, and with the heal stacks its a death sentence if not cleansed. I dunno, something. Surely trion can figure out a way to make more than 1 or 2 souls per class viable.
    Close, but for PvP what Trion SHOULD do is streamline the Necro mechanic so you don't need to build up/stack so many spells in order to do "decent" dmg, in short the current build up time is what screws Necro in PvP. It's just too fast paced for slow old plodding Necro to keep up with the other dps souls, period.

    I'd combine Necrosis, Essense Link and Looming Demise into one spell and do away with the Deathly Calling mechanic all together. If you invested 51 points into Necro you shouldn't have to "build" up your dps and your pets dps, it's absurd. It's not as if with 5 stacks of DC on a target that Necro does some INSANE dps anyway lol, so we have to build up DC stacks just to be average??? Stupid. Simplify the whole soul ffs to make it more user friendly in both PvP and PvE. Rift Necro is poorly designed when compared to the dps of other "offenisve" mage souls.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol u mad? View Post
    I wouldn't say "fine" pvp is playable but mages are definitely dead last in terms of damage output in a Warfront. We can't do **** to nightbades right now and Clerics are just....Last night I was basically just targeting other mages mostly
    If we're dead last why have I got top killing blows in every warfront today that I played Pyro, bar 2 or so games lol.

    I don't steal THAT many kills with Inferno XD
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  13. #13
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    If we're dead last why have I got top killing blows in every warfront today that I played Pyro, bar 2 or so games lol.

    I don't steal THAT many kills with Inferno XD
    You must not have very many premades running around.

    I used to be able to keep Rogues(and now Warriors) honest with Overload fireballs if they overextended. Now they just stand there and tank me.

    I used to be able to knock down healer walls with Stormcaller but now everything can be healed through.

    Pyro and the survival specs are doing ok right now(if you were already P8 before the patch) but everything else is trash. I have a problem with this.

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    Ascendant Inixia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol u mad? View Post
    You must not have very many premades running around.

    I used to be able to keep Rogues(and now Warriors) honest with Overload fireballs if they overextended. Now they just stand there and tank me.

    I used to be able to knock down healer walls with Stormcaller but now everything can be healed through.

    Pyro and the survival specs are doing ok right now(if you were already P8 before the patch) but everything else is trash. I have a problem with this.
    Agreed :/ I mean there are a few decent specs out there, but the tradeoffs between survival and dmg in most mage specs this patch don't really compare to other callings atm, or itself prepatch... the burst it does have is only comparable to more well rounded specs imo. I miss my sc

    edit: the lack of aoe viability is definitely the most noticeable change (that and single target burst is a lot harder to setup).
    Last edited by Inixia; 02-04-2012 at 08:55 PM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    I agree the mage class could use some love overall but a pyro spec with 25ish points in lock is fairing as well for me now as it did pre 1.7, at least 1.7 after yesterdays hotfix that is.

    Blink + lockdown + some lock tricksies keeps up me while pugging as long as I position, kite and CC well.

    Not good AE output and no heal debuff but if I time my burst right and take care to assist on well healed targets the ST output is just dandy, as it was before 1.7.

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