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Thread: Crit soft cap.... a problem in need of a solution

  1. #1
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    Default Crit soft cap.... a problem in need of a solution

    As we all know, Trion put in crit soft caps to stop excessive inflation of DPS.
    Unfortunately, this did have some consquences.

    Post soft cap, it makes way more sense to get SP over SC. This has given rise to a few current and potential issues.

    1. Gear. Lots of mage gear has SC. Increasingly, cleric gear is becoming more and more attractive. The fact that mage usable cleric gear is dropping more frequently makes it an even bigger point of contention.

    2. Long term wise, mages actually are more gimped with stat bonuses when compared to clerics. Its only a matter of time before clerics hit the soft crit cap. At that point, Int/wis gives mages 0.5 SP, while clerics get 0.25/0.75.... which is to their advantage.

    I am of the opinion that the soft/hard crit cap should stay, but that they shouldn't make SC as a stat almost completely worthless. Perhaps we can come up with suggestions on how to improve this situation.

    To get the ball rollng, one suggestion I have is for SC to have a 2nd effect once soft crit cap is hit. It can either be as a dmg add effect on crits (kind of like a proc.... maybe 1 dmg per SC..... would benefit DoT classes more), or a minuscule increase in dmg % on crit (eg. 1 SC can give you 0.01% dmg on crit... so 100 SC will give you 50+1% crit.... this can potentially be too powerful though).

    This secondary effect can be enhanced on reaching hard crit cap, so that the stat doesn't become obsolete altogether. So there is still advancement post crit cap, but at a slower (but not inferior to SP) rate.
    Last edited by masakari81; 02-01-2012 at 07:40 PM.

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    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    As we all know, Trion put in crit soft caps to stop excessive inflation of DPS.
    Unfortunately, this did have some consquences.

    Post soft cap, it makes way more sense to get SP over SC. This has given rise to a few current and potential issues.

    1. Gear. Lots of mage gear has SC. Increasingly, cleric gear is becoming more and more attractive. The fact that mage usable cleric gear is dropping more frequently makes it an even bigger point of contention.

    2. Long term wise, mages actually are more gimped with stat bonuses when compared to clerics. Its only a matter of time before clerics hit the soft crit cap. At that point, Int/wis gives mages 0.5 SP, while clerics get 0.25/0.75.... which is to their advantage.

    I am of the opinion that the soft/hard crit cap should stay, but that they shouldn't make SC as a stat almost completely worthless. Perhaps we can come up with suggestions on how to improve this situation.

    To get the ball rollng, one suggestion I have is for SC to have a 2nd effect once soft crit cap is hit. It can either be as a dmg add effect on crits (kind of like a proc.... maybe 1 dmg per SC..... would benefit DoT classes more), or a minuscule increase in dmg % on crit (eg. 1 SC can give you 0.01% dmg on crit... so 100 SC will give you 50+1% crit.... this can potentially be too powerful though).

    This secondary effect can be enhanced on reaching hard crit cap, so that the stat doesn't become obsolete altogether. So there is still advancement post crit cap, but at a slower (but not inferior to SP) rate.
    reduce the diminishing returns scaling to something less than current, so that it becomes a possible option to push to hardcap if that's your preference. currently the crit values required to do so are fundamentally insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn View Post
    reduce the diminishing returns scaling to something less than current, so that it becomes a possible option to push to hardcap if that's your preference. currently the crit values required to do so are fundamentally insane
    I did think of that, but its still gonna end up with a problem in that SC will end up vastly inferior to SP at the end of the day depending on what numbers you wish to use.

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    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    I did think of that, but its still gonna end up with a problem in that SC will end up vastly inferior to SP at the end of the day depending on what numbers you wish to use.
    Not really, since Rifts combat system is heavily biased towards crit to begin with, any noticeable gain in crit can result in gains similar to a much higher magnitude of spell power. This is partly because crit always hits for consistent amounts with no rng element besides the crit itself, and the other is that rift uses a static critical modifier instead of variable crit modifiers. ( in other games critmag on dot-type spells is usually much lower than the critmag on a slow-cast DD spell)

    Crit is good forthe same reasons the soft cap was introduced, it scales very well,though almost too well. But the DR from soft cap to hard cap on a log type scale would solve the issue, where up the more crit you have, the more you need to see a noticeable difference.
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    Even before the soft cap was introduced, the general agreement amongst number crunchers was that for every 2 SC, you should get 1 SP, and that on the whole, 1 SP was more valuable. This makes sense since 1 Int gives 1 SC and 0.5 SP.... a 2 to 1 ratio is to be expected. Hence a lot of decisions regarding gear and whether to roll for something or not were based on that very rough formula.

    Even a slight change, making 3 SC = 1 SP, would make a significant difference in terms of suddenly which items are looked upon more favourably. All + SC items will suddenly look like junk.

    I understand your point about crit being good, and I actually do feel on the whole that it has contributed too much to the huge inflation in dmg. But they need to make it such that mages will still want Int and the + SC stats on items don't become near useless.

    Of course, you could always make it that mages get 0.75 SP from Int, 0.25 from Wis. That would pretty much kill of interest in cleric gear quite quickly.
    Last edited by masakari81; 02-02-2012 at 01:20 AM.

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    i just gave up trying to deal with it
    i wear cleric accessories mostly now, the massive hp was a surprising bonus ( duh, but when it pays off, your grateful!)
    if a change was made it would have to be post softcap but certainly something needs tuning
    ...but then again when i think about it, how much dps is enough for content.
    im now stripping rep runes off my gear and replacing with endurance/parry type stuff and still do nuts out dps, which if all end game mages do/did then the heal reqs wuld drop and the deeps can climb via a freed job


    hmm
    food for thought, sorry i spewed it in your thread
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 02-02-2012 at 01:29 AM.
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    This is a problem and I don't think raising the crit cap is a viable long term solution as we'd end up with crazy crit percentages when fully raid buffed.

    I think a good solution would be to alter the contribution from each point of spell crit to your crit rating. Off the top of my head, its 26 spell crit gives 1% crit rating. If this was raised to say 35 spell crit giving 1% crit rating then we could carry on stacking int well into the next tier.

    I also like the idea of somehow softening the diminishing returns from the 5x penalty over 45% crit at the moment to maybe 3x over 45% crit.

    This isn't just a mage problem either
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemo View Post
    This isn't just a mage problem either
    True, rogues face this problem, and warriors as well by virtue of the fact that AP is quite useless for them (although this is supposedly going to be fixed in 1.8).

    Only ones whom aren't as affected by this are clerics who have relatively the best deal in the long run (short term they suffer a little... but this has been so overcompensated for that its ridiculous).

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    Or they could leave crit on set pieces but drop more items with SP. And more often.

    Got to say, it's pretty irritating when you've been in tier 1 raids forever and have cleared GP 20 times, only to see one wand of excess drop, and it wasn't my turn to get it.

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