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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Chloro = dead useless in pvp for 1.7

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Chloro = dead useless in pvp for 1.7

    With the new valor upgrades damage mitigation goes up to 58%.
    Guildies report having 1450 valor on PTS. This is going live.
    Chloros and bards will be the most affected souls.
    Can we get an explanation why trion deems chloro healing overpowered?

  2. #2
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    People are already complaining about a lack of non cleric healing in warfronts on live. I agree this unintended change on Chloro viability needs to be looked at quite urgently.

    cheers Styl

  3. #3
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    chloro as a main healer has been "dead useless" in PvP for a looong time, maybe this will patch will make you play something useful
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  4. #4
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    Since I've just created a topic on the PTS forums and a post in Kervik's bug thread about this issue, I can't agree more enough with you. This needs to be looked at.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveJones View Post
    chloro as a main healer has been "dead useless" in PvP for a looong time, maybe this will patch will make you play something useful
    On live its a semi reasonable dps / aoe heal trade off, but yeah the mechanic is very sensitive to Valor buffs. Also chloro already can't cross heal each other as veil effects don't stack.

    Predictions? basically dominator fest inc in warfronts, which is pretty much a shame..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by styl View Post
    On live its a semi reasonable dps / aoe heal trade off, but yeah the mechanic is very sensitive to Valor buffs. Also chloro already can't cross heal each other as veil effects don't stack.

    Predictions? basically dominator fest inc in warfronts, which is pretty much a shame..
    I've tried it. I mean I've REALLY tried it, I wanted 51 to work so bad, but when they gave pets the valor of their owners and leveled out valor across ranks combined with giving more healing debuffs to rogues and leaving warriors' alone, that's when full chloro really died.

    Yup, absolutely a dom fest. Chloro/dom will still be decent support, pyro/dom won't be bursty(as well as every other class probably). Time to 51 dom and grief people.

    Or maybe I can finally have some survivability and do 51 archon!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveJones View Post
    stuff
    Actally pyro/dom received a bit of a buff from the changes being implemented.
    Burning bright providing the full bonus and then placing 4 points into GoP =13.8% damage bonus as opposed to the original 12% from AM.
    Cinderburst damage reduction was changed too.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Default PvP Chloro Issues

    Veil heals should bypass a certain percentage of a target's valor. As PvP gear grants higher valor, Chloro heals become less and less effective. Clerics don't have to deal with this linear reduction of healing. In fact, this patch indirectly buffs clerics even worse than it indirectly nerfs chloros. Somehow even with their loss of Templar goodies, cross-healing r8 wardens are even harder to kill.

    When I did the pvp test yesterday, my Void Life ticks were CRITTING for a paltry ~110 on (I assume r8) players. And that was with 1800 spell power. And while it's true we still have Bloom, Flourish, Essence Surge, Wild Growth, Natural Conversion, Withering Vines (lol), and Natural Healing, 70-90% of a chloro's heals is through a veil.

    Here are the main 3 issues facing PvP Chloros:

    1) The removal of Archmage: +15% player damage, +30% crit damage, and being able to insta-cast spells after being interrupted

    2) Increased valor across the board: Reduced incoming damage, resulting in reduced veil heals

    3) Chloros still can't heal each other through veil heals


    And here are 3 suggestions to help fix these issues:

    1) To be honest, I don't even mind doing less damage as a chloro. I just want to be able to heal effectively and consistently.

    2) Buff veils in PvP. Let the veils bypass a certain percentage of valor on a target. Perhaps roll it into Living Infusion. Make it so single-target chloro life spells bypass ~1.5% of a target's valor per point in chloro above 31. This way a 51 chloro bypasses ~30% valor.

    Of course, since Living Infusion is a 32 point root ability, this still doesn't help Chlorolocks, and kind of limits viable chloro variations. The alternative is to maybe include this valor-penetration mechanic inside LGV/LBV itself. Grant maybe .6% valor penetration per point of Chloro. (15.6% at 26, 19.2% at 32, 30.6% at 51)

    3) Let us get SOME heals from other veil-users. Maybe halve it, quarter it, whatever.

    Sure, i-cars can't reparation heal each other, but 70-80% of most icar heals comes from DoL anyways. Contrast that with Chloros that have 70-90% of their heals come from veils.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eMPathicOne View Post
    1) To be honest, I don't even mind doing less damage as a chloro. I just want to be able to heal effectively and consistently.

    2) Buff veils in PvP. Let the veils bypass a certain percentage of valor on a target. Perhaps roll it into Living Infusion. Make it so single-target chloro life spells bypass ~1.5% of a target's valor per point in chloro above 31. This way a 51 chloro bypasses ~30% valor.

    Of course, since Living Infusion is a 32 point root ability, this still doesn't help Chlorolocks, and kind of limits viable chloro variations. The alternative is to maybe include this valor-penetration mechanic inside LGV/LBV itself. Grant maybe .6% valor penetration per point of Chloro. (15.6% at 26, 19.2% at 32, 30.6% at 51)

    3) Let us get SOME heals from other veil-users. Maybe halve it, quarter it, whatever.

    Sure, i-cars can't reparation heal each other, but 70-80% of most icar heals comes from DoL anyways. Contrast that with Chloros that have 70-90% of their heals come from veils.
    In my opinion valor should not reduce healing from veils at all. Veils should simply take the damage before reduction from valor into account. A cleric doesn't need to spec into anything to be as effective in PVP as in PVE (speaking of healing power only, not any other PVP related stuff). Why should a chloro do it?

    I agree on #3. Mages should be able to heal each other through veils just like two clerics can heal each other. I would also give letting Synth ourselves a thought.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Actally pyro/dom received a bit of a buff from the changes being implemented.
    Burning bright providing the full bonus and then placing 4 points into GoP =13.8% damage bonus as opposed to the original 12% from AM.
    Cinderburst damage reduction was changed too.
    Burning bright change has already been on live for some time, confirmed by Kervik and others doing tests. So we lost a potential 15%(not everyone copy/pasted bleedz's spec) and the slight roll back from cinderburst only gives us 5% back. Valor changes remove that 5% and some more.
    Rank 8, 11/11

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symphony the Guild View Post
    With the new valor upgrades damage mitigation goes up to 58%.
    Guildies report having 1450 valor on PTS. This is going live.
    Chloros and bards will be the most affected souls.
    Can we get an explanation why trion deems chloro healing overpowered?
    1450 is low. I was over 1600. It was at 65.2% mitigation or something insane and I didn't have all the valor PA yet.

    Tried testing it on a warrior using a PVE weapon...51 chloro (without a powerstone) was healing me for 66 damage per tick of void life, 99 damage per crit after the healing debuff.

    Not even triple digits. Keep in mind when fully self buffed....I had 11.6k hp. 3 second void life channel. 11.6k hp. 300/11,600 = 2.6%, if every tick crits. A 3 second channel to heal 2.6% of my hp. Brilliant.

    51 chloro was somewhat viable in PVP pre 1.7 although wasn't great. Even synth is only channeling like 300 damage a tick after healing debuff right now. It's horrid.

    The additional problem is if they buff healing anymore it's going to be worse for overall PVP because so much of it is going out from clerics and people have so much valor that people simply are not dying. Horrid, horrid patch.
    Last edited by Jayko; 02-01-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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  12.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #12
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    Hey all,

    This is something that we're looking at and working on figuring out a way that this doesn't hurt Chloros like it does. That said, we have some ideas but none of them are a quick and easy fix for it. I'll try to keep everyone updated on the progress of a fix, but it most likely will be a bit before we can get it out to you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveJones View Post
    chloro as a main healer has been "dead useless" in PvP for a looong time, maybe this will patch will make you play something useful
    Interesting comment. So everyone should play something you "think" is useful. Chloros have been nerfed for a long time. PVP wise they should be able to play and be there in support of their groups. This "make everything DPS" is garbage..
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    This is something that we're looking at and working on figuring out a way that this doesn't hurt Chloros like it does. That said, we have some ideas but none of them are a quick and easy fix for it. I'll try to keep everyone updated on the progress of a fix, but it most likely will be a bit before we can get it out to you.
    Possibly add in or change casting timed spells to be a bit faster on cast or instant cast, I assume?
    --BC

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    This is something that we're looking at and working on figuring out a way that this doesn't hurt Chloros like it does. That said, we have some ideas but none of them are a quick and easy fix for it. I'll try to keep everyone updated on the progress of a fix, but it most likely will be a bit before we can get it out to you.
    1.3 mod on healing done when target of damage done = PVP or something equivalent. I wouldn't think that would be too hard a change considering you can .8 mod it for Cinderburst when target = PVP. It won't address all chloro issues but it would at an increase in healing throughput when target is PVP wouldn't be too difficult a fix I'd imagine. If the target isn't wearing valor gear, shame on them. We already looked for lower valor targets for veil healing anyway.

    Would push veil healing closer to where it was pre 1.7 which was still fairly underwhelming. My concern is that if you give chloros too effective raid splash/AE healing fights will increasingly never end. I'd like to see the absurd amounts of valor tweaked back down before you start tinkering with veil healing ><
    Last edited by Jayko; 02-01-2012 at 09:53 AM.
    Jayko <Breaking Bads> 5/8 ID Grammar National Socialist
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