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Thread: Cleric items getting focus now = mage BIS = problem

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara
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    Default Cleric items getting focus now = mage BIS = problem

    I'm sure anyone vaguely in touch with the upcoming changes in 1.7 know that previously non focus cleric items are now all getting focus. During our farm run this week the Spark Coil Wand dropped from Inquisitor Garau and it occured to me that with 50focus this would definitely be BIS for a mage.

    This sparked a minor debate in our guild as previously anything wisdom heavy is automatically cleric priority regardless of its BIS status for a mage (and ignoring if the mage has higher dkp). I doubt we are alone in facing this argument.

    Are there any plans to ensure mage gear remains BIS for mages or are we going to end up with raging rows on TS3 as soon as the focus arrives for cleric items?
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    Rift Chaser Lucith's Avatar
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    I imagine it will be the same a's when clerics were stacking crit and jacking Mage gear. Btw that wand will be bis along with inquisitors light(trash neck drop)
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    Prophet of Telara Venditte's Avatar
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    They're still tweaking how much SP/wis the new focus items will have. Don't worry, Trion still have a few weeks before they release 1.7.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    I had a hell of a fight getting myself Estrode's Stolen Adornment.
    I really don't want it to be useless after the effort I put in.
    Nope.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venditte View Post
    They're still tweaking how much SP/wis the new focus items will have. Don't worry, Trion still have a few weeks before they release 1.7.
    Do you know if there will be any publication of these changes prior to release? (Excluding on PTS) I imagine it'd be good for our guild to agree a solution before something drops that both mages and clerics want and we waste half the raid time arguing over it!
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    How about Trion changes Spellpower (for mages) from Int to 0,75 and Wisdom to 0,25 (by now its 0,5 ; 0,5)
    Considering this all mages would probably stick to Int instead of Wisdom.
    Yes it could be that a cleric item is better because it has tonns of Spellpower but in general all mages would stick to Int.
    Or am i seeing this wrong?

    By now I´m trying to get some not needed cleric gear, just for the case it really get BIS when 1.7 goes live. It will be anyway just the weapons, ring and amulett.

    Just another solution: the cleric Mainhand and twohanded will be always a mace. If i got it right trion is making this change to bring damage gear and healing gear on one item, so there will be no more "non-focus" drops.
    Last edited by dysen; 01-30-2012 at 05:09 AM.
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    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dysen View Post
    How about Trion changes Spellpower (for mages) from Int to 0,75 and Wisdom to 0,25 (by now its 0,5 ; 0,5)
    Considering this all mages would probably stick to Int instead of Wisdom.
    Yes it could be that a cleric item is better because it has tonns of Spellpower but in general all mages would stick to Int.
    Or am i seeing this wrong?
    the problem as I stated in a previous thread is that int loses a good portion of its value to a mage once you reach about 1050 unbuffed spellcrit rating, and raw spellcrit on items becomes effectively valueless. as a result of this, many items are evaluated solely on their spellpower derived from stats and raw value.


    in this case the 2 BiS wands pre-akylios would be the planar conqueror's baton, or the night's breath relic wand from alsbeth; this is because the only "mage" wand in the hammerknell instance is maddening flame, which has a high int value, no spellpower, and some crit

    another good examble of this is the revamped Cryptcaller's Tome from grugonim versus the rune vessel remnant or crushing depths. cryptcaller's has 350 raw sp, rune vessel 339 SP, but similar combined int+wis stat value.
    Last edited by Araenn; 01-30-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Right now i´m going just for raw spellpower too, but compareing
    night's breath relic wand, Wand of Excess (10man GP) and planar conqueror's baton
    with the change of 0,75 spellpower per Int and 0,25 spellpower per wisdom
    these three get comparable in raw spellpower plus the wand of Excess has 40 Focus (planar conqueror's baton has 35) night´s breath hasn´t.

    Night`s Breath:
    21 int * 0,75 = 15,75 sp
    32 wis * 0,25 = 8 sp
    +15 sp
    = 38,75 sp

    Wand of Excess:
    30 int * 0,75 = 22,5
    16 wis * 0,25 = 4
    + 12 sp
    = 38,5 sp + 40 focus

    planar conqueror's baton:
    25 int * 0,75 = 18,75
    25 wis * 0,25 = 6,25
    + 12 sp
    = 37 sp + 35 focus

    so if you need focus you will drop night´s breath for Wand of Excess or Planar Conqueror´s baton. I wouldnt even roll for it, when its BIS for clerics (talking about Night´s breath).
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn View Post
    the problem as I stated in a previous thread is that int loses a good portion of its value to a mage once you reach about 1050 unbuffed spellcrit rating, and raw spellcrit on items becomes effectively valueless. as a result of this, many items are evaluated solely on their spellpower derived from stats and raw value.
    Spell crit's value goes through the floor once you reach 1187 rating fully buffed. For non-Chloro specs that means around 960-975 crit unbuffed varying within that range based upon Intelligence.

    For instance my crit cap is 970.2 rating if I use Mighty Brightsurge or 965.2 rating if I use Heroic Brightsurge.

    If you are at 1050 unbuffed then you are way over the cap and wasting a lot of stats.

    For a better understanding read Bluedot's explanation, his is as good as any.
    http://bluedots.org/2011/10/17/under...shing-returns/
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 01-30-2012 at 06:09 AM.
    Nope.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Default Agree

    <To the OP>

    As a cleric I totally agree with your concerns, for the simple fact that I seen a scenario which a greedy
    mage DID NOT HESITATE to roll on a cleric item with focus on it, cause he felt it would increase his chance of hitting in tier 2 at the cost of losing dps(BEFORE 1.7 CHANGES AT THAT...SO IMAGINE CLERIC GEAR WITH FOCUS ON IT!!!)


    That being stated is why I would like to promote a harder penalty for wearing gear this is not suited for
    your class.

    Since most gear is getting revamped I would like to see "focus" stat changed to something similar that
    only a calling can benefit from like "precision" or something.

    This would keep mages filthy hands off cleric gear and not give them a second though on
    rolling(attempted ROBBERY) on gear they shouldn't be rolling for with clerics.

    I do see a nasty war b/n mages and clerics in the near future which might break guilds up...beware trion


    PS--->If you are rolling against ppl with gear that does not suite your calling...SHAME ON YOU!!!!

    If you are loot council voting on gear that does not fit a calling when it is clearly beneficial to the other player....SHAME ON YOU!!!!

    Wouldn't have to suggest stuff like this if ppl would have consideration for others callings and not roll on gear that YOU KNOW is not meant for you....YOU WILL BREED RESENTMENT

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Shhhh's Avatar
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    I wouldn't advise itemizing to cleric accessories and weapons because it's temporarily better. Any unintentional boost to mages will be swiftly removed and then, because we took advantage of it, we will be nerfed in other areas as punishment.

    Hypothetical example: You wear a new Cleric ring in 1.7 because it's better. In 1.7.1 they will nerf it and put class: Cleric on it and then change fireball to a 3 second cast later and making our pyro synergy crystal 4 piece bonus improve the damage of improved flame jet. We will come here asking why, get no response, random warrior (thats too fkn stupid to avoid a wave so they have to way of the mountain) chimes in HA MAGES OP while they're pressing 1 button eating glue, but I digress.

    Just stick with what you can get for mage long term. If you know it's cleric and it's better for mage it's just a trap.. dont fall for it.

    edit: Good thing I'm not jaded yet.
    Last edited by Shhhh; 01-30-2012 at 07:45 AM.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Calibrex's Avatar
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    We had had the same issue on a few relic items back in the day. For months, no cleric loot was dropping and a few 2h mage staves were dropping. We started having clerics used DKP on the dropping mage loot.

    Our exception to the rule: we would discuss any issue regarding cross class bidding and use the council to decide of it would be a valid dkp bid. A few considerations - who is bidding, for which role, how much of an upgrade.
    Where's the Auction House to buy more DPS for my cleric?

  13. #13
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Yet no-one will roll on Chain, and Clerics were notorious for coveting high crit / int cloth not so long ago.

    Since Wands don't actually relate to DPS (the scenario Bows / Guns face when competition arises between Warriors and Rogues), and are merely stat sticks, it really shouldn't matter. If it's an upgrade, and you're using a DKP system, whoever bids the most should get the item.

    This selfish "it's mine because <insert rationalle here>" is exactly why so many despise the DKP system and relinquish control to Loot Counsels.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer DaddyDaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemecis View Post
    Yet no-one will roll on Chain, and Clerics were notorious for coveting high crit / int cloth not so long ago.

    Since Wands don't actually relate to DPS (the scenario Bows / Guns face when competition arises between Warriors and Rogues), and are merely stat sticks, it really shouldn't matter. If it's an upgrade, and you're using a DKP system, whoever bids the most should get the item.

    This selfish "it's mine because <insert rationalle here>" is exactly why so many despise the DKP system and relinquish control to Loot Counsels.
    my guild prioritizes high wis to cleric and int to mage so i'm kinda screwed on that end, but really trion just needs to stop throwing crit on "mage" items.

    what are you doin on the mage boards Nem? lol. go back to RoM
    Last edited by DaddyDaz; 01-30-2012 at 09:35 AM.
    Experience is the best teacher.. if you can afford the tuition.

  15. #15
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyDaz View Post
    my guild prioritizes high wis to cleric and int to mage so i'm kinda screwed on that end, but really trion just needs to stop throwing crit on "mage" items.

    what are you doin on the mage boards Nem? lol. go back to RoM
    a ROM referance? Who's dis? - also much like in ROM, I play every class in Rift ;)

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