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Thread: Patch 1.7 DPS

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default Patch 1.7 DPS

    I'm slightly disturbed by changes in 1.7.

    Mages got a bit of a nerf, which I'm ok with, albeit I feel it was unnecessary.
    Rogues got a much needed buff, word on the street is that the buff is a bit too strong, but time will tell.
    Clerics should shut up and heal...... kidding :P.

    Warriors are however going to be stupidly OP with the new energy changes (not aware if there were any more as I have been away for a week or so). A guildy of mine parsed 3.7k self buffed on a dummy in the PTS. It is not a standard cookie cutter build (still revolves around rising waterfall) and the limitation he always had with it was energy.

    I'm not bothering posting in warrior or PTS forums simply because they will all require screenshots/parses... which I will not provide since it is not my build to give. I'm posting it in the mage forums just so to stir a bit of discussion on this. I'm not a 'my class must be best DPS' kind of person.... in raids, I always compare against the next highest mage (or cleric if I'm healing with my alt), and as long as I top my class I'm happy. However, this looks like its headed back towards the days when mages relative DPS was somewhat gimped.... and HK being a generally mage friendly fight will never show it (even when gimped, mages were topping 5 out of 11 fights).

  2. #2
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    Now we know the formula: Rift cycles itself every 7 patches.

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    Oops... my guildy corrected me.... 3.2k DPS, without relic weapon. My bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    I'm slightly disturbed by changes in 1.7.

    Mages got a bit of a nerf, which I'm ok with, albeit I feel it was unnecessary.
    Rogues got a much needed buff, word on the street is that the buff is a bit too strong, but time will tell.
    Clerics should shut up and heal...... kidding :P.

    Warriors are however going to be stupidly OP with the new energy changes (not aware if there were any more as I have been away for a week or so). A guildy of mine parsed 3.7k self buffed on a dummy in the PTS. It is not a standard cookie cutter build (still revolves around rising waterfall) and the limitation he always had with it was energy.

    I'm not bothering posting in warrior or PTS forums simply because they will all require screenshots/parses... which I will not provide since it is not my build to give. I'm posting it in the mage forums just so to stir a bit of discussion on this. I'm not a 'my class must be best DPS' kind of person.... in raids, I always compare against the next highest mage (or cleric if I'm healing with my alt), and as long as I top my class I'm happy. However, this looks like its headed back towards the days when mages relative DPS was somewhat gimped.... and HK being a generally mage friendly fight will never show it (even when gimped, mages were topping 5 out of 11 fights).
    The energy buff is not the reason his DPS is so high. If you don't know why the increase was so substantial (That warriors have already pointed out to Atrius that it's out of line), you really shouldn't be bothering talking about warrior's DPS.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    The energy buff is not the reason his DPS is so high. If you don't know why the increase was so substantial (That warriors have already pointed out to Atrius that it's out of line), you really shouldn't be bothering talking about warrior's DPS.
    Yeah, how well did that work with Reaver changes?

    I'm seriously expecting this **** to go live, and then I don't know wtf we players are supposed to do. Is this Atrius's fault? Is he incompetent, or just a mindless cheerleader for warriors who doesn't care about the game?

    TRION's thought process: "Hm, warriors have to spam AE attacks and use off-GCD finishers to achieve competitive DPS. RW build is the only viable raid spec, and SLI is a crutch on all warrior DPS builds. You know what we should do? Buff SLI and their power regen, instead of making other options competitive!"

    Also, Atrius tries to make BM competitive. Result: BM pulling 1.9k DPS, RW (I think?) pulling 3.1k on PTS. Job well done, TRION!
    Last edited by Beckmann; 01-27-2012 at 06:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    The reason for the higher DPS on PTS compared to live is as follows
    1. Proper application of SB + FOW to AoE attacks (basically higher crit damage) - This is HUGE as the current cookie cutter spec is heavy on AoE ability attacks for ST DPS (yes...that's warriors dps for you)
    2. FOW being changed from 10 / 20 / 30% increase to follow up attacks to 5 / 10 / 15% for ALL attacks
    3. General formula changes in how damage is calculated regarding SLI
    4. Energy change leaving builds that would be previously power starve to not
    Overall IMO Warrior DPS on PTS is currently too high. The jump in DPS is substantial. Atrius has said that FOW will likely change to 3 / 6 / 10% compared to its current PTS levels which would bring DPS down somewhat.

    I must state that in v1.8 the champ crystal is likely to get nerfed. Atrius is "looking" at this.

    Considering the amount of changes to the different classes as well as buff to existing items (incl HK items), the nerf to the Warlock Crystal was probably abit premature. 38/28 lock / pyro is the current benchmark for all ST DPS. What they have done is nerf the benchmark and bringing the others up. It would have been better to keep the benchmark and bring the others up.
    Last edited by Blackblade; 01-27-2012 at 06:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackblade View Post
    Considering the amount of changes to the different classes as well as buff to existing items (incl HK items), the nerf to the Warlock Crystal was probably abit premature. 38/28 lock / pyro is the current benchmark for all ST DPS. What they have done is nerf the benchmark and bringing the others up. It would have been better to keep the benchmark and bring the others up.
    I disagree. Overbuffing is getting out of hand. Warriors on live were a reasonable standard to bring everyone to, not buffing everyone to match parses that one mage build in the hands of a few very skilled players on only two fights can achieve.

    Defilemancer nerf was fine. The lock crystal on PTS is a joke, though, and if they are going to take away 38/28 they should give us another competitive build.

    Warriors buffs weren't needed. Warriors needed more competitive DPS builds, but their raw numbers were fine.

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    3.2k with bard buffs possibly. 3.2k without? Nope. The highest I was able to do with living energy and self buffs was 3.k, but thats without FOW getting nerfed(which Atrius already said is going to happen). So, whatever numbers you see on PTS are not right and won't make it to Live. He has already said that. Oh, and to post on any forum is just asking for a flame war.
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    With the warlock crystal nerf, the cleric dps buffs, the rogue bug fix and a couple of buffs we could have been in a situation where the single target dps difference between callings would have been the closest it has ever been. The warrior bug fixes and the totally unexpected SLI buff however will put warriors miles ahead of the others if it goes live even with the FoW nerf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    The energy buff is not the reason his DPS is so high. If you don't know why the increase was so substantial (That warriors have already pointed out to Atrius that it's out of line), you really shouldn't be bothering talking about warrior's DPS.
    Thanks for being absolutely helpful. I even stated that I'm not fully clear on the changes yet and which ones are the big culprits, just the energy issue was the main one pointed out to me.

    This post was for mages to discuss.... if I had wanted to QQ about warriors, I would have put it into the warrior forums. It wasn't a 'let's nerf warrior thread' as much as it was a 'what should we do about mages' thread. At least blackblade gave some useful information on the topic.
    Last edited by masakari81; 01-27-2012 at 06:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    Thanks for being absolutely helpful. I even stated that I'm not fully clear on the changes yet and which ones are the big culprits, just the energy issue was the main one pointed out to me.

    This post was for mages to discuss.... if I had wanted to QQ about warriors, I would have put it into the warrior forums. It wasn't a 'let's nerf warrior thread' as much as it was a 'what should we do about mages' thread. At least blackblade gave some useful information on the topic.
    A thread stating how warriors are overbuffed and OP with no real evidence and no real idea on WHY they are overbuffed can be written off as nothing but QQing about warriors. Claiming that our energy regen is the REASON we're doing so well just makes it that much more obvious that you're simply QQing because that indeed is NOT the reason.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    This post was for mages to discuss.... if I had wanted to QQ about warriors, I would have put it into the warrior forums. It wasn't a 'let's nerf warrior thread' as much as it was a 'what should we do about mages' thread. At least blackblade gave some useful information on the topic.
    There's no such thing as excluding warriors on these boards.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    3.2k with bard buffs possibly. 3.2k without? Nope. The highest I was able to do with living energy and self buffs was 3.k, but thats without FOW getting nerfed(which Atrius already said is going to happen). So, whatever numbers you see on PTS are not right and won't make it to Live. He has already said that. Oh, and to post on any forum is just asking for a flame war.
    No bard buffs. Although I know he usually parses with the energy buff if he can get a fellow guildy on (usually me or a rogue friend).


    EDIT: Sigh... Hunt55511, just leave it alone. I have nothing against you, but please be constructive if you want to continue posting on this thread.
    Last edited by masakari81; 01-27-2012 at 06:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    No bard buffs. Although I know he usually parses with the energy buff if he can get a fellow guildy on (usually me or a rogue friend).


    EDIT: Sigh... Hunt55511, just leave it alone. I have nothing against you, but please be constructive if you want to continue posting on this thread.
    There's nothing constructive about providing false information about why something is overbuffed.

    If you are going to post a thread like this, you should at least understand why warriors are overbuffed at the moment -- which I and almost every warrior agree on -- and not claim that something relatively unrelated is the key cause behind the change. The reason I am lashing out against this isn't because you are wanting warriors nerfed -- As I've said, we all think warriors do too much DPS at the moment -- but that you are trying to nerf a change that was actually needed for us when it isn't at all the cause of your concerns.

    TL;DR: If you're going to try and get us nerfed, at least get your facts straight.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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    11/11 HK | 4/4 ROTP | 0/8 ID

  15. #15
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    ...
    Your objections are noted.
    Energy change was not needed (there is even a thread on the warrior forums on this).... and it plays a part in the number I posted (the standard RW build is not the top DPS build, especially once energy starvation is taken out of the picture)... but there are other factors.
    Please refer to blackblade's list on the actual reasons why warriors should be nerfed.... happy?

    Back to topic on DPS state of mages in relation to other classes.
    Last edited by masakari81; 01-27-2012 at 07:16 PM.

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