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Thread: [ELEMENTALIST] A proposal to improve the Elementalist soul

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default [ELEMENTALIST] A proposal to improve the Elementalist soul

    As all lvl 50 mages know, Ele sucks at 50. Its sole purpose is the tier 5 talent Tempest, which virtually all PVE specs take for the crit bonus.

    The problem with Ele is that all its spells (except Lightning Strike) have clunky mechanics or just do crappy damage. But perhaps the biggest problem with the soul is that it is a pet-based soul but all of its pets do inconsequential damage.

    Below is a suggestion/request to rework the soul. The concept of this proposal is an Ele soul more like a DAOC theurgist, ie: multiple, temporary pets that attack the same target until the target/elemental dies, or runs out of duration.

    Comments welcome.

    ----------------------------
    Summary

    - Add a melee-oriented fire elemental pet.
    - Pets become temporary instead of permanent.
    - Pet summons are cast on a target & the summoned pet attacks that target until that target is dead (after which it switches to the mage's current target), or until the pet's summon duration expires.
    - Pets ideally do *not* despawn after the caster dies.


    Pets

    - 4 types, 1 of each element. only 1 pet of each type can be out at 1 time. recasting a pet of 1 type desummons the existing pet of that type.
    - pet damage should be tuned to constitute 50%+ of a 51 Ele's damage.

    1) earth elemental
    - high HP, fast-moving melee/utility pet that does moderate melee dmg & procs a stacking snare. Radiates an armour buff.
    - base duration 60 secs, reuse CD 30secs, cast time 1.5 secs
    - obtained at 0pt Ele

    2) water elemental
    - ranged caster pet that casts a snaring water-based nuke & a spell interrupt. Radiates a health & mana regen aura.
    - base duration 45 secs, reuse CD 30secs, cast time 1.5 secs
    - obtained at 10pt Ele

    3) air elemental
    - caster pet that casts a ranged AOE. Radiates a SP buff.
    - base duration 30 secs, reuse CD 30secs, cast time 1.5 secs
    - obtained at 20pt Ele

    4) fire elemental
    - melee pet that does high melee damage. Radiates AOE damage to all enemies within 8m.
    - base duration 30 secs, reuse CD 30 secs, cast time 1.5 secs
    - Obtained at 44pt Ele

    Specific spell & talent changes

    - Fiery Assault: effective range doubled.
    - Icy carapace: increases pet critical damage against target by 20%. duration increased to 21 secs (thereby total dmg relative to live). 20sec CD.
    - Ignite: duration increased to 15 secs (thereby increasing its total dmg). 15 sec CD added.
    - Encase: root made to not break on damage (since pets are uncontrolled).
    - Velocity: decreases cast time of CM and gives 20/40/60/80/100% chance to increate pet dmg vs target.
    - Sacrifice: Sacrifices all current Ele pets & heals Ele for 25% max health for each pet sacrificed.
    - Quicken Elements: heals targeted elemental & adds 1 sec extra duration / sec. (ie: with focus, an Ele can keep one of his elementals up almost indefinitely). consumes charge.
    - Planar expansion: Adds 6/12/18/24/30sec duration to summoned elementals.
    - Fast Summon: resets all pet summon CDs & makes next pet summon instant. off-GCD. 15 sec CD.
    - Swarming Flames: removed & replaced with an instant-cast spell that resets all pet summon CDs and summons all 4 pets instantly. 2min CD.
    - Synergize: changed to a buff on the caster. still grants 3 charge for each damaging attack from each pet.
    - Dismiss: dismisses targeted elemental.

    Gameplay comments
    - at low level and/or when solo, earth elemental is used to soak damage and slow a target allowing Ele to kite.
    - raid DPS rotation would consist of keeping all 4 elementals up, and buffing their damage by keeping Ignite, IC and crystalline missiles buffs up.
    - charge dump by using either Quicken Elements (if solo & using earth ele to tank while other pets kill), or by using Elemental Forces in group/raid situation.

  2. #2
    General of Telara Relair's Avatar
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    I like most of your ideas but no no no no for the love of god, no 'despawning non permanent pets' I hate turret pets with a passion. Swarm pets like the 51 ability are great, but for the main, class central pets I would hate having to monitor their time constantly and recast them for no reason whatsoever. There is absolutely no reason at all to have them last 30 seconds then recast in the form you stated, they seem perfectly balanced being permanent. The only pets I'd want on a short duration are insane dmg burst long cooldown pets.
    Last edited by Relair; 10-15-2011 at 07:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I like some of your ideas Ashenne, but I do not like the idea of completely abandoning static pets. So I suggest a marriage of your ideas, and the current Elementalist tree. Here is my interpretation of what that could look like:

    Fire Elemental: Available at 32 points.
    • Summons a static melee DPS pet, with moderate defense and high damage. To differentiate it from the Air Pet, make the Fire pet more ST oriented, and the Air pet more AOE based.

    Elemental Swarm (To take the place of swarming flames). Available at 51 points. The Elementalist fractures their summoned elemental into 3 uncontrolled minions for 30 seconds. 2 minute cool down. 4 second cast time.
    • Earth elemental:
      - Summons three high HP melee pets that do moderate melee damage & proc a stacking snare. These pets generate large mount of hate.
    • Water elemental
      - Summons three ranged caster pets that cast an interrupting nuke and radiate a MP/HP regen.
    • Air elemental
      - Summons three Caster pets that cast a ranged AOE and radiate a SP buff.
    • Fire elemental
      -Summons three melee pets that do high melee damage and radiate AOE damage to all enemies within 8m.
    • Note:
      -The Elementalist is free to summon a permanent pet during the duration of Elemental Swarm.

    Elemental Sacrifice: The Elementalist sacrifices their beloved Planar ally for the benefit of their team mates. Available at 44 points. 2 minute cool down. Instant Cast. Does not work with Swarm Pets.
    • Earth Elemental: The power of earth shields the Mage's allies, reducing the damage they receive by 25% for 10 seconds.
    • Air Elemental: The power of Air invigorates the Mage's allies and restores 2% of their base mana every second for 10 seconds.
    • Water Elemental: The power of Water cleanses the Mage's allies removing 1 Disease/Poison/Curse effect every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
    • Fire Elemental: The power of fire flows through the Mage's allies increasing their damage dealt by 10% for 10 seconds.

    Channel Elements: Available for 32 points. The Mage channels the power of their Elemental to strengthen themselves. Consumes Charge while Active. Instant Cast. Does not work with Swarm Pets.
    • Earth Elemental: The Mage has all incoming damage reduced by 50%.
    • Air Elemental: The Mage has their movement speed and casting speed increased by 25%.
    • Water Elemental: The Mage is healed for 5% of their maximum health every second.*
    • Fire Elemental: The Mage has their critical hit chance increased by 10%.

    Here is a a laundry list of some other changes:
    • Abrasion: Up the chance to remove a single debuff to 50%.
    • Ashen Armor: Have it also increase the Mage's Critical Hit chance by 6%
    • Elemental Armor: Move it to 38 points where it was in Beta.
    • Elemental Link: Increase the damage reduction to 15%.
    • Exposure: Making it a ground targetable AOE.
    • Fiery Assault: Reduce the cool down to 10 seconds.
    • Revitalize: Make it useable in combat.
    • Sever Bonds: Have it take the place of Sacrifice on the Soul Tree.
    • Velocity Fully specced, it should give a 100% chance to increase pet damage.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    Swarm pets should explode upon being killed, dealing moderate to high aoe damage that scales with your spell power at the rate of most regular spells. This will partially or fully negate the problem of having swarm pets die to the aoe and not do enough damage, rendering the skill useless in many encounters.

  5. #5
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    I'm all for removing the related RNG skills (ie. the 2 buffs to crystaline missile). This alone will make me a happy person. I've actually used elementalist with some success in WF's.... but it needs to make up with the lack of oomph by providing more utility. A spammable purge comes to mind and would definitely make elementalist more of an asset in WF's.

    Regarding PvE.... I think the changes are too drastic to actually happen. Increasing the duration and damage of ignite is a good way to start I guess (I wouldn't even mind a CD on it... coz I'm lazy and want to macro it :P). Boosting elemental armor/burning grounds/fiery assult should make for a good farming build.

    And I wish sacrifice was more in line with reclaim power from the necro tree.... sac life of elemental to gain life for mage.... rather than sac'ing the elemental and get a paltry HP gain in return.

    Elemental wise, only one I would like to fix would be earth... more threat and the ability to get toughness would be great.... I half want to see an elementalist tank :P. Dmg from other elementals should be made up for with a velocity buff.

  6. #6
    aux
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    Elementalist mostly just needs to scale better. It barely improves at all.

    IMO, it could use a passive that greatly increases pet damage output after 32 points. Like, at least three times as much as it does now at 51, and probably more.

    And some increase to Crystalline Missiles damage, either through talents (preferred) or coefficient. Icy Carapace could use a boost as well, especially to the DoT component.
    I'm so BORED

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    Elementalist mostly just needs to scale better. It barely improves at all.

    IMO, it could use a passive that greatly increases pet damage output after 32 points. Like, at least three times as much as it does now at 51, and probably more.

    And some increase to Crystalline Missiles damage, either through talents (preferred) or coefficient. Icy Carapace could use a boost as well, especially to the DoT component.

    Actually with velocity and ashen armor, the greater air elemental does deal out decent dmg. However, the RNG on velocity makes it extremely infuriating.... throwing in a lightning strike could well mean the velocity debuff dropping off.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relair View Post
    I like most of your ideas but no no no no for the love of god, no 'despawning non permanent pets' I hate turret pets with a passion.
    The basis for my proposal really draws from the DAOC theurgist (see first few minutes of this video for an example). The crux of the proposal is that pets ought to be doing more for the Ele soul.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    Elementalist mostly just needs to scale better. It barely improves at all.

    IMO, it could use a passive that greatly increases pet damage output after 32 points. Like, at least three times as much as it does now at 51, and probably more.

    And some increase to Crystalline Missiles damage, either through talents (preferred) or coefficient. Icy Carapace could use a boost as well, especially to the DoT component.
    I agree with this. Elementalists aren't THAT bad, they need to scale better (mostly their pets). A passive talent at lvl 32 (to increase the amount of stats/SP your pet gets from you with more points spent in the soul) would probably be the best solution, while not increasing the power of hybrid builds massively.

    I like the current incarnation of the elementalist and would just like to see them become more raid viable (the 51pt builds). The permanent pets we have now are fine IMO, I wouldn't like to see these changed to swarms we have to recast all the time.

    Specific spell & talent changes

    - Fiery Assault: effective range doubled.
    - Icy carapace: increases pet critical damage against target by 20%. duration increased to 21 secs (thereby total dmg relative to live). 20sec CD.
    - Ignite: duration increased to 15 secs (thereby increasing its total dmg). 15 sec CD added.
    - Encase: root made to not break on damage (since pets are uncontrolled).
    - Velocity: decreases cast time of CM and gives 20/40/60/80/100% chance to increate pet dmg vs target.
    - Sacrifice: Sacrifices all current Ele pets & heals Ele for 25% max health for each pet sacrificed.
    - Quicken Elements: heals targeted elemental & adds 1 sec extra duration / sec. (ie: with focus, an Ele can keep one of his elementals up almost indefinitely). consumes charge.
    - Planar expansion: Adds 6/12/18/24/30sec duration to summoned elementals.
    - Fast Summon: resets all pet summon CDs & makes next pet summon instant. off-GCD. 15 sec CD.
    - Swarming Flames: removed & replaced with an instant-cast spell that resets all pet summon CDs and summons all 4 pets instantly. 2min CD.
    - Synergize: changed to a buff on the caster. still grants 3 charge for each damaging attack from each pet.
    - Dismiss: dismisses targeted elemental.
    To these points:
    - fiery assault: I think the range is fine, but the cooldown needs to go. Its so easy to get interrupted etc.
    - icy carapace: interesting idea to increase the pets damage while the effect is active on the target. However, a standard rotation makes use of lots of CM casts, so the effect usually falls off right away usually. If CM's pet buff were changed to not be chance based, the icy carapace change would make sense.
    - ignite: would be a convenience change, not really neccessary IMO
    - encase: agree with this. icy gale is useful but has too long a cooldown, if we could use encase more reliably it would help survivability.
    - velocity: nothing to add. The chance based buff really needs to be changed.
    - sacrifice: I don't use it. Perhaps this would be more useful if it was a group heal/shielding effect instead.
    - quicken elements: please, do NOT change this to be charge based! This is one of the best abilities in our arsenal, and a huge advantage we have over the necro (and all other pet classes too, I guess).
    - swarming flames: definitely keep em! I heard that on test the cooldown is reduced, thats already great. Now I also heard a rumor that they cast more often if you are close to the target, if this is indeed the case (I only did one short test in which this was true, but need more testing), this needs fixed ASAP!

  10. #10
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    As it appears relevant, on the PTS the Velocity debuff is now always applied if you have the relevant talent. Swarming Flame's cooldown is also 2 minutes.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Ele needs better damaging attacks and harder hitting pets. Simple enough.

  12. #12
    aux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarim View Post
    - quicken elements: please, do NOT change this to be charge based! This is one of the best abilities in our arsenal, and a huge advantage we have over the necro (and all other pet classes too, I guess).
    Yeah agreed here. This is pretty much the only advantage the soul has over Necromancer for solo play.


    Good to hear that Velocity got 100%'d on PTS. I wonder if there's any more changes. The change won't do much good unless there's other nukes to cast - currently Ignite and Icy Carapace are a DPS loss on an Elementalist primary so you're spamming CM and keeping the debuff up all the time anyway.
    I'm so BORED

  13. #13
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    Love the idea. Really wish they would do something like this. However, I do have some arguments. I do not think they should bring the dps directly up to the competetive specs. Leave it 250-300 behind, so that the buffs which the pets provide allow you to fill a half support role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenne View Post
    - Velocity: decreases cast time of CM and gives 20/40/60/80/100% chance to increate pet dmg vs target.
    It's kind of like that after the last patch on test (today). 1pt in Velocity gives it a 100% chance to debuff the mob for 10% more pet damage, and it's an extra 10% damage per point. Still reduces cast time as well.
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  15. #15
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    I think ele could use a big lookover.

    For one, Elemental Forces is 100% crap. If it was changed to tick whenever any damage is done (like dots) then ele would actually be a very interesting spec, laying somewhere between a dot spec and a nuker.

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