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Thread: Mage Threat

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Mage Threat

    Hi, I am having a bit of trouble with threat lately and want to find out if others are.

    Pyro/Ele, normally during cooldowns. I have usually popped my cds when the archon hits flaring power, about 30 seconds in usually. I have pulled threat as much as 1:20 into the fight as well.

    The tanks are warriors, and are very good tanks, so I don't think that is it. I had problems in the past with pulling threat in previous guilds with lazy tanks, but upon coming to my current one I have not had a problem for a long time until recently.

    Examples:

    - Vlad Prime last night, even with the reduced damage on the boss, I pulled aggro at :59 into the fight.

    - Plutonus about 36 seconds in, on the off night raid

    - Matron, about 6/10 times, I get aggro on the little adds that spawn.. I am usually pyro/ele single targeting the boss. Last night, Guy upstairs called 'clicking' have about 10 seconds, immediately switched to an add, hit 2 fireballs, stopped dps, put pet on passive, went to the back by the stairs (was not dpsing for a good 6 seconds) and still had half of them swarm to me.


    I do pull decent dps, was at 2k when I pulled on Prime, and about 2600 at the time when i pulled plutonus. Usually about 1950-2100 on Murdantix. I am using the r1 pyro crystal with r8 offset pieces for pyro, and r8 crystal when I use other specs. about 1420 SP/1067 SC self buffed.

    - Should I be timing my cds later? I try and do them with the archon buffs to maximize my dps, and have it early enough to get as many as I can in. When are you guys using them? Obviously there is some huge burst with pyro cds. But without a threat meter, I really don't want to just 'back off' and not maximize my dps.

    - Some guild members have mentioned that Less threat greater..... really don't want to have to go down that road and lose stats.

    - This also may be occuring because there are not so many sabdancers incriminating the tank since the rogue buffs as well..

    Anyone else having threat problems?

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalisk View Post
    Hi, I am having a bit of trouble with threat lately and want to find out if others are.

    *snip*

    But without a threat meter, I really don't want to just 'back off' and not maximize my dps.

    *snip*

    Anyone else having threat problems?
    Only one thing comes to mind..... good. Observe and adapt, makes you a better player in the long run.

    Threat meters.....yuck. Where is the fun in that? (yes I raid, before you ask)

    Heck I miss the days when you couldn't even see the health bar of the target you attacked....esp in PvP.

    Oh well.....

    Keille - Rank 8 Mage of Briarfliff
    (Previously, Lanfear @ Freeholme)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEternity View Post
    Only one thing comes to mind..... good. Observe and adapt, makes you a better player in the long run.

    Threat meters.....yuck. Where is the fun in that? (yes I raid, before you ask)
    Observe what? Getting aggro on the boss and getting 1 shot in < 2 seconds? lol. I am not even always at the top of the current dps when pulling, so I am not sure what exactly to 'observe'.

    If it was every time, and on the same bosses, then yeah, I need to adapt to those situations. But it is pretty random (besides the weird matron thing)

    Not sure why you wouldn't like threat meters, may not be fun, but either is pulling aggro.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer DaddyDaz's Avatar
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    i've noticed a large aggro issue in this game. pyro has always been an issue since launch though. when the game first came out, i use to raid as 51 pyro (yes it was fail, ty) and would rip aggro all the time. now with pyro/ele it seems to be an even larger issue with the crits from tempest.

    what sucks is the aggro scales with gear to a fairly extreme level from what i've seen. with no HK gear at all, i can could just go to town on the matron fight in sc/ele did 3880 on my first kill. now i have the trash dropped staff, and three other pieces of HK loot and rip off the tanks a hell of a lot faster. i end up sitting there waiting till i know the tanks have the adds, and then cut into them. with the time off the adds, i do the same DPS as i did with no HK loot.

    i thought i saw a trion post talking about tanking and aggro being looked at for 1.6, but i may be trippin. i can check into it again.

    edit: a lot of aggro issues i see in game is people being baddies and just not giving the tanks time to get proper threat built up, but i do still think there is an issue with aggro.
    Last edited by DaddyDaz; 10-14-2011 at 11:22 AM.
    Experience is the best teacher.. if you can afford the tuition.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    I understand where you are coming from, esp if an encounter isn't working correctly. However, I don't believe that is the case. Which typically means its a raid dynamic.

    My comment on observe would mean a couple things like :

    I would ask two questions.

    First, I imagine someone in the raid is parsing for you to post numbers, so I would review the logs and see if you are spiking much higher than any one else in the raid. Is there a pattern there? Looking at the timelines can help you understand where the problems are happening and make changes.

    Second, has the tank changed what they are doing? This may not even be something you are doing (other than bad timing of CD's perhaps).

    It may be as simple as timing your CD's against the tanks.

    I don't peronsally like damage meters any more than threat meters, just a personal point of view, but they have become such a staple in the raiding community that I'm the oddman out there.

    Either way I hope you figure it out.


    -Edit- DaddyDaz's sig has it right.

    Keille - Rank 8 Mage of Briarcliff
    (Previously, Lanfear @ Freeholme)
    Last edited by DarkEternity; 10-14-2011 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara
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    Notice you only pull threat at the beginning of a fight.

    Exceeding 130% of a small number is a lot easier than exceeding 130% of a large number (the additional 30% in the latter case represents a larger buffer).

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara
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    It's a failsafe to prevent mages from doing decent dps. He'll I've seen rogues burst at 2800 while at the same moment I'll be at 2400 a minute into the fight and guess who pulls aggro?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEternity View Post

    First, I imagine someone in the raid is parsing for you to post numbers, so I would review the logs and see if you are spiking much higher than any one else in the raid. Is there a pattern there?
    I use meters myself, and of course my damage is spiking high when I pull the threat, It has to be to get above the tank threat. Pyro has insane burst, and i have seen almost 6k on the dummy during that time. I do not have a problem if I am going sc/ele or defilelock, but those are more sustained over time damage.

    The problem is, in a 5 minute fight, to maximize dps you really want to pop your cds in the first minute to get 3 full cd rotations in, or etc. It Usually isn't a problem, and it is something I have always done, it is just starting to become a problem now.

    I am just wondering if other mages are using cooldowns different then that. They definitely can't be skipping a whole CD rotation and hitting some of the numbers I have seen posted.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalisk View Post
    I use meters myself, and of course my damage is spiking high when I pull the threat, It has to be to get above the tank threat. Pyro has insane burst, and i have seen almost 6k on the dummy during that time. I do not have a problem if I am going sc/ele or defilelock, but those are more sustained over time damage.

    The problem is, in a 5 minute fight, to maximize dps you really want to pop your cds in the first minute to get 3 full cd rotations in, or etc. It Usually isn't a problem, and it is something I have always done, it is just starting to become a problem now.

    I am just wondering if other mages are using cooldowns different then that. They definitely can't be skipping a whole CD rotation and hitting some of the numbers I have seen posted.
    Still with Aegis?

    If so, I really have no clue how you're pulling anything off of Dag. He's a hell of a tank.
    Xail - R41 Mage
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Mage View Post
    Still with Aegis?

    If so, I really have no clue how you're pulling anything off of Dag. He's a hell of a tank.

    Yeah, and yes he is a hell of a tank, just started happening these last couple weeks, both of us are frustrated. Another pyro mage pulled in zilas while i was on SC aoe duty as well last night, so it's not just me.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Yeah I've been having worse and worse threat issues as I gain more gear. I have 3peices of Nyx with the hk pyro crystal. Now I've adjusted my starting rotation to use Ie during flaring and save heatwave/Ie for after flaring. If I use it during flaring I pull agro, PERIOD. However, Grugonim really doesn't like pyros. I pulled agro around 5 mins in because we had 50 stacks from the ants. My fireballs were hitting for 7500, and cinders or 13500 WITHOUT IE or Flaring. Now every other dps class gets a threat drop but we don't?? ( unless u have a 10dom chloro, which we don't). if marksmen get to x-fer threat to their pet why shouldn't we be able to. This needs to be fixed because as it is I can't even dps as hard as I could, cause I usually pull agro around 2700-3200 dps depending on the fight and CDs.
    Last edited by Freeezy; 10-14-2011 at 02:13 PM.

  12. #12
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    Oh and i don't ONLY have 3 pieces of Nyx + crystal. Only missing a trinket chest and pants from hk. So you can say I'm very geared. But so are our tanks. And this only became a problem when our raid went from having 5 sabos with incriminate to all MM and one Sabo with incriminate.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    From what I've been reading in the Warrior forums it appears that their threat generation has been cut severely since a few weeks ago.

    I'm not sure why, or when it shall be fixed, but it's likely that could be the root of the problem.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seginus View Post
    From what I've been reading in the Warrior forums it appears that their threat generation has been cut severely since a few weeks ago.

    I'm not sure why, or when it shall be fixed, but it's likely that could be the root of the problem.
    Well that AND less sabos in the raid is HUGE.

  15. #15
    lgw
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    1) Start slow - Pyro DPS is highly variable, and even with good procs (FB crit / Combust stacks / Cinder) you spike high. 5x PS + 1x SV is a good buffer.
    2) Tell your tanks to regularly taunt ever 20s or 30s - if you're at 110% or 120% aggro you won't pull yet, but they can to yours again. (Be very careful on Sica - MT getting bubbled sucks, trust me.)
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