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Thread: Raiding SC -- Exploiting Icicle ??

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    lgw
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    Default Raiding SC -- Exploiting Icicle ??

    Preface: As raidlead I run Chloro or if need to Pyro these days, to allow me more focus for other things. Hence I'd like some feedback from you.

    We already know that if the encounter allows, exploiting AB / HS with BS is big DPS.

    So what about doing the following:
    * Generate charge via Lightning Storm (+50). Initial fill is supported by stacking SV / PS.
    * Turn on BS.
    * Every 3rd cast use a Hypo spell. AB / HS if CD is up, Icicle if not.
    * Use SF only for AB / HS if at all.
    * For the rest use regular rotation - maintain Electrified & IS, keep LS & RS on CD and fill with CB.
    * Rely on pet with Synergy to keep maintain Charge (until next LS is ready - then shortly turn BS off).

    Quick dummy tests showed:
    * Rotation is not only possible, but sufficiently simple due much less Charge toggles.
    * Charge is sufficient.
    * Auto crit Icicle hits quite hard (more than CB, and at 100% crit naturally), and two BS stacks are enough for (near) autocrits. It's also only 1.7-1.8s cast in raids.

    Couldn't and possibly can't test it in raids... so any input or somebody willing to give this a shot ?
    Last edited by lgw; 10-04-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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    Plane Touched
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    Why are you using the word exploiting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabolicWeapon View Post
    Why are you using the word exploiting?
    People throw the word around constantly on these forums. Apparently using a skill to it's maximum potential is considered exploitation.
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    I think he's calling it exploiting because there's currently a bug where BS doesn't fall off? I'm not sure how it works but I've seen it used
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    lgw
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    Sorry if "exploiting" caused some misconception. It's in no way referring to misuse, cheating or anything - just the rather classic sense of the word, meaning "use something up to its (maximum) potential".
    IDK, maybe people really get MMO language and normal language mixed up... or it's me who should stop posting on forums after writing "real life" articles and stuff.

    In any way, back to the actual topic please.
    Last edited by lgw; 10-04-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabolicWeapon View Post
    Why are you using the word exploiting?
    I am assuming he is using the literal definition of the word.


    If I understand you correctly the rotation would look something like:

    SV > 5x PS > Lightning Storm
    Building Storm On
    ice shear
    lightning strike
    cb
    <arctice blast> static flux on/off
    cb
    thunder bolt
    ice shear
    <hailstorm> static flux on/off
    lightning strike
    cb
    cb
    icicle
    thunder bolt
    ice shear
    lightning strike
    arctic blast
    building storm OFF
    Lightning Storm and repeat

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    lgw
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    Yeah, about that.
    Just a little less fixed due 1) possible movement 2) possible AOE and 3) AB / RS CDs (20s) not mashing with LStorm / HS (30s) CDs, unless you write up a full 1min rotation.

    Also you use "too many" skills in between Icicles (AB, HS). Make it every 3rd, not every 4th.
    Math: 40-45% base crit (close to softcap) + 15% raidbuffs + 2x 20% BS = 95-100% crit
    Last edited by lgw; 10-04-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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    XiL
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    For AoE use Flash Freeze rather than Icicle. Single target this doesn't work. Not enough charge or time between cooldowns.
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    lgw
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiL View Post
    For AoE use Flash Freeze rather than Icicle.
    FF isn't Hypo and hence doesn't work with BS.

    Single target this doesn't work. Not enough charge or time between cooldowns.
    Well enough Charge due your pet giving you +3 every 1.8s (even more if you use the Water pet). Might not be able to SF every AB / HS, but that's an easy practical adjustment.
    And you can easily get about AB + HS + 3-4 Icicles in between your LStorms. Plus it makes your whole toggle management much more straight forward.
    Remeber: Archon buffs have a big impact here.

    The question is just how well it does in practise compared to dummy theorycrafting. Hence I'm posting just as the ID resets, so maybe some folks can help me find out.
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    XiL
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    FF isn't Hypo and hence doesn't work with BS.



    Well enough Charge due your pet giving you +3 every 1.8s (even more if you use the Water pet). Might not be able to SF every AB / HS, but that's an easy practical adjustment.
    And you can easily get about AB + HS + 3-4 Icicles in between your LStorms. Plus it makes your whole toggle management much more straight forward.
    Remeber: Archon buffs have a big impact here.

    The question is just how well it does in practise compared to dummy theorycrafting. Hence I'm posting just as the ID resets, so maybe some folks can help me find out.
    FF adds BS stack between AB and HS, hits AoE, it doesn't consume electrified prematurely like LF will, and its instant cast AoE...

    So like I said rather than using Icicle like mentioned in the OP use FF instead. It will guarantee BS procs on HS without having to cast something after AB. (you may have noticed if you slap out AB and HS together the second one sometimes doesn't get the building storm mod)

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    lgw
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    Erm... you don't use Icicle to build BS, but to consume BS, so Icicle is another high damage auto crit as well. That's also why FF won't do the trick here, as you can't make it auto crit with BS (at least if they didn't stealth change it with 1.5).
    And yeah, this is a pure ST trick. If you need to do AOE don't use Icicle, ever, because more targets hit = better. FL/LF plus IS on priority target, and use AB/HS/LStrike on CD (with BS for the two former) - more simple than any ST rota for SC.
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    Shield of Telara Mayakov's Avatar
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    If you don't do SF on the hailstorm you'll have enough charge built for another BS/AB rotation after the hailstorm rotation with SF on and then when both of them are on CD you can use icicle. I will test this but it seems more optimal than bluedot's rotation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayakov View Post
    If you don't do SF on the hailstorm you'll have enough charge built for another BS/AB rotation after the hailstorm rotation with SF on and then when both of them are on CD you can use icicle. I will test this but it seems more optimal than bluedot's rotation.
    yeah, it's not...i would rather just leave out icicle and SF all my HSs and ABs.

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    AoE
    Build Stacks and Charge>Ice Shear>Cooldowns>BS/SF>HS>FF>AB>BS/SF>LF /repeat
    FL x(need)>LF x(Stacks) /repeat (between cooldowns to fill charge again)

    ST
    Build Stacks and Charge>Ice Shear>Cooldowns>BS/SF>LS>CB>AB>RS>BS/SF>Ice Shear>HS>LS>CBx(till electrify is almost gone) /repeat

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    Last edited by XiL; 10-05-2011 at 01:46 AM.
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    I think he's calling it exploiting because there's currently a bug where BS doesn't fall off? I'm not sure how it works but I've seen it used
    BS was that way when it was first created. So its not like an exploit but more like a logical return to the roots. Not that it's gamebreaking anyways, just more convenient that way. Why do warriors get to carry their builder stacks around and we dont?

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