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Thread: Warlock/Necromancer DOTs vs. Assassin DOTs: Is it time to buff Warlock DOTs?

  1. #1
    Plane Walker GLopez's Avatar
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    Default Warlock/Necromancer DOTs vs. Assassin DOTs: Is it time to buff Warlock DOTs?

    Let me start with the example of Leeching Poison vs. Life Leech, since I think this is a good example of why I'm drawing this comparison between two vastly different callings. Leeching Poison just got buffed with the justification that its healing was not enough. Funnily enough, Life Leech is in a similar situation. It heals for about as much as Leeching Poison did last patch, and it has a 1.5-second cast. Actually, if it wasn't for it being refreshed by Void Bolt, which is also a 1.5-second cast, it probably wouldn't be worth using for the DPS.

    Meanwhile, all the other DOTs are pretty pathetic. Yes, they are worth it in the long-term in PVE, but some of that is because of other benefits they provide. Necrosis, for example, would barely be worth using if it didn't buff pet damage.

    Then, in PVP, DOTs are largely not worth using at all. They're worth putting up while moving and setting up charge, but they're really not something that does enough damage to actively put up through dispels. The only exception to this is obviously Last Gasp and maybe Defile.

    With the recent buffs to rogue DOTs after it was found poisons don't do enough damage, is it time to admit Warlocks and Necromancers may need some love in this area too?

    For me, it seems really weird to me coming from WOW, which has two and maybe three mechanically sound DOT classes in both PVE and PVP, to a game that basically has no DOT classes even though it obviously tries to. This might call for some nerfs elsewhere, but it would at least add variety to DPSing playstyles.
    Last edited by GLopez; 09-28-2011 at 11:44 PM.
    Zepol @ Seastone - Mage

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    I'd be satisfied if Life Leech simply became an instant cast, or could be changed to one via the talent tree. I do believe the Necromancer soul could use some love, but considering how successful Warlock is already, even without a buff to DoT's, I doubt anyone would advocate making it even more powerful.
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  3. #3
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    Warlock needs no adjusting or buffing. It is a great soul, as complimentary or by it's own build. They need to work on other souls; like dom and necro enchance the deeper parts of those souls.

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    Plane Touched Payne Ashstone's Avatar
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    What they really need to work on is elementalist. Also, I agree that life leech should be instant, other than that, warlock doesn't really need much in my opinion.
    Payneful..... Mage, Rank 8, <Reckless> @Deepstrike
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  5. #5
    Plane Walker GLopez's Avatar
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    Making Life Leech instant would be great, and it wouldn't even have much of an effect in PVE, since a 1.5-second cast is basically the same thing as a 1.5-second GCD most of the time.
    Zepol @ Seastone - Mage

  6. #6
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    Default agree with buff

    PvP view: Given all the whining about DS it's only a matter of time before it gets (unnecessarily IMHO) nerfed. The thing about DS is that even though it probably wasn't intended to be used with the double tap the double tap provides some necessary damage for the lock as the soul currently stands. If/when they nerf this it's going to require compensation elsewhere, and buffing dots would be a good place. Make life leech instant and up it's damage somewhat, a significant damage increase to dark touch would be a good place to start. Having 3 heavy dot ticking on your opponent in PvP might make up for the nerf by providing a "passive burst" as you're casting ED'd VB/DB etc..

    People don't purge as much as they should (given all the debuffs in this game you can chain cleanse yourself for an entire WF practically if you did). That said, DoTs seem like they're intended to be a primary aspect of this soul's damage, so they also need dispell protection. In a game like WoW, lock dots could be devastating if left on, and hence were purged so completely they had to put in Unstable Affliction to protect it. Rift lock dots are swallowed up by aoe healing, making them essentially useless from a damage-dealing perspective except for proccing glory of the chosen and such. This completely changes the lock from a Dot soul to a wait-for-ED-then-burst soul. This is actually why DS is so popular now, and why removing it without buffing dots would be a soul killer. But with buffed, purge-resistant dots? yeah, then it would become more of what it seems it was intended to be. Right now Dots hit like little girls and are purged at will. If that is fixed the soul can become what I think was originally intended -- use Dots and Opp procs to set up an opponent then use ED to burn him down if you time it right. Right now DS just makes up for the too-weak and too-purgeable dot portion of that equation and makes the soul more about the burst than the setup, when both should be equal. (Imagine a scale where you need to balance them and get to 10 to have a viable pvp soul -- right now the dot half is a 2 and the burst half is 8, making them a viable 10 , but it would be better to have them 5&5 or 6&4)

    On a personal note, I'd like to see another Dot in the tree as well. Having to cast another dot would make buffing the other ones easier (spreads it around and takes away a GCD from DD in PvE to help compensate the extra dot damage). My personal preference on this one would be a mana-burn effect -- burns mana to do damage, giving locks a respectable way to deal with healer/purgers, but to be honest the best addition might be a copy of Unstable Affliction -- that was an excellent way to solve the dispel problem (which was much worse) in WoW, so why reinvent the wheel? Instant purge protection without having to change dispell mechanics. There's a temptation to come up with an original, elegant solution, I know, but it's har to do it more simply and effectively than that.
    Last edited by syrianx; 10-07-2011 at 05:28 PM. Reason: clarification

  7. #7
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    A slight buff to dot's (either through talent or base spell abilities) would go a long way to making the warlock defile and the necro/lock specs significantly more competitive in ST PvE dps. They could easily change the Neddra's influence talent to be 1.6 or 1.7% per point in the warlock soul (from 1.5%), this would work out to be a 3.8% buff or a 7.6% buff (for 1.6 or 1.7 percent, respectively, for a 38/28 defile lock spec).

    This would make up for the DS nerf in pvp, while bringing warlocks closer to parity with warriors and rogues in pvp. Win-win.

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    1) Defile should not use charge.
    2) Improved Life Leech damage is fine.
    3) Improved Life Leech healing needs a buff.
    4) Mortality needs to be changed to whatever Trion wants as long as it functions. It dose not function now. Break Free--->Mortality--->Warrior STILL INTERRUPTS IT WITH IMMUNITY!
    5) Increase physical damage mitigation on Cloth PvP gear.
    6) If Life Leech stays the way it is then Improved LL needs to also reduce the cast time to 0 AND it can be cast on multiple targets. (Though I see how this would get nurfed quick as a WL will spam it on 3 targets and live forever!)

    So, if you get 0cast time on LL it will only be ca-stable on 1 target.

    Necro:

    Fix this crappy spell Plague Bolt for the love of...Trion! I can;t believe you developers still have this junk spell! Lower the cast time to 1.5 or increase its damage to match the DPS of a 1.5 sec Void Bolt.

    Also remove the need for deathly stacks, its a crap mechanic!

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I use a 51warlock and i'm a Dotter by heart; But entering a raid as a DPS seems bloody lame.

    I twiked and played with my warlock for a long time, but no matter what I do, I'll never pass Pyro or SC dps. And unlike them, we got a hell of rotation to throw in, very charge dependent (ED and Defile), and we aren't as mobile as we'd like to think we are - void bolt spamming is a crucial part for our rotation. Our AoE isn't as good as SC (but can compete with Pyro)

    Sure, warlock can outlive anyone and stay the last men standing in a wipe situation - but you can't win a boss when you're the last one to fight.

    Usually in raid bosses, i can get 1-1.2K dps with my warlock, while our Pyro gets 1.8-2K dps (and we're almost the same gear). And I never mentioned 1.5's marksmen

    I can understand and accept that in close quarters' PVP we're weak and useless - in the end, we're dotters. The meaning of dots is to build your DPS up - the longer the fight is, the more powerful the dotter should be.

    I did try Pyro and SC, but DD is not my style. In the end, i find myself supporting with Archon, and Dominator in pvp. The warlock role is covered with dust by now.
    -----------------------

    Someone mentioned Dominator should get buffed.
    I don't think they need to get buffed, in pvp they're gods of frustration and CC, but the mechanics should be changed so they could be used in PvE boss fights.
    I got a dom/archon spec for specific raid boss fights (ex. herald in ros), but more then that, i'll keep archonin.

    At least archons are great supporters

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara
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    Well, the nice thing is that properly equipped, warlock is viable with DoT dmg. The prob is it needs the HK synergy crystal. Still lags behind pyro/sc.... but only by a little, and you beat them hands down in a mobility fight. I wouldn't mind them de-emphasizing void bolt as a dmg dealer though, and maybe make neddra's grasp more potent and radiate death cover more spells.

  11. #11
    Champion Rift Stinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    6) If Life Leech stays the way it is then Improved LL needs to also reduce the cast time to 0 AND it can be cast on multiple targets. (Though I see how this would get nurfed quick as a WL will spam it on 3 targets and live forever!)

    vex

    more dmg, more healing, instant, spammable

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift Stinker View Post
    vex

    more dmg, more healing, instant, spammable

    I never really looked at Vex -or Cleric for that matter, don't care for the calling mechanics at all- so I'll take your word for it.

    Though I fear if they do allow LL to work like Vex they may move it deep into the WL tree -which for me a 44 to 51 WL is not an issue really.
    Last edited by Cempa; 10-11-2011 at 02:04 AM.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Osmosis's Avatar
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    Radiate death should allow you to disperse ALL your lock dots including defile. At the moment I radiate Neddra's + Dark Touch and watch it do piddly damage, even if I pop ED before my dot spread the damage is still pretty pathetic. It would make LL more useful, on a single target it's not worth casting, but I can see it's benefit as an AoE leech via Radiate.

    I have a feeling though, that if they did buff lock dot damage, the community would just cry about it until we got nerfed back down again, seems to be the way they respond to mage improvements.
    Last edited by Osmosis; 10-11-2011 at 02:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    I would totally support a Dot buff in pvp, as they are about the most useless thing you can do in a Warfront unless they are backed up with an empowered darkness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmosis View Post
    Radiate death should allow you to disperse ALL your lock dots including defile. At the moment I radiate Neddra's + Dark Touch and watch it do piddly damage, even if I pop ED before my dot spread the damage is still pretty pathetic. It would make LL more useful, on a single target it's not worth casting, but I can see it's benefit as an AoE leech via Radiate.

    I have a feeling though, that if they did buff lock dot damage, the community would just cry about it until we got nerfed back down again, seems to be the way they respond to mage improvements.
    Why would you say LL damage is not worth casting? DPCT -I'm not looking at the tooltip now so correct me of I am wrong- makes it a well worth while casting DoT if only for the damage part.

    I would argue that the healing needs to be increased!

    I would also argue Defile needs to cost no charge and learned at trainer at 38 or 36 and ED moved from 51 to 38 or 36 THEN give a cool 51.
    Last edited by Cempa; 10-11-2011 at 04:02 AM.

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