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Thread: End-game mage DPS

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default End-game mage DPS

    Heyo fellow mages-

    Background: I just started raiding a week ago in GSB (clear) and RoS (3 bosses). My gear is not all that good-mostly crafted set-piece stuff and I still have a lot of t1 gear. However, in those raids I parsed pretty good- I was usually top 3 or 4 and on two of the foci I was tops according to ACT, using all available pots and other damage enhancers. I run a pyro build for now, soon to be stormacaller, and I follow Bluedot's site pretty closely re: macros, builds, gearing, etc. My MMO background is mostly pvp in WoW (gladiator/arena master mage, horde), so I try to be diligent when attempting to contribute to a raid. I am amazed that a mage can step into a raid with my kind of gear and put out those numbers. I was expecting to parse around 800-1,000 on average. On a few fights like the foci, I hit around 1,400 dps.

    Question: I, like you, sift through the garbage mage qq in this forum trying to find the good stuff. I've seen Bluedot's screenshots of 2k+ dps in RoS (I'm a donating member on his site, so I'm not sure if that screenshot is open to the public). I am totally happy, so far, with how much damage a mage can output even with little gear. To wit:

    a- For those of you mages who are in HK, exactly how competitive are we with DPS? I know that each boss has unique mechanics, so my question is very general- can we give a warrior or rogue a run for their money, in general?

    b- Are my numbers indicative of the fact that mages scale better than other classes at lower gear-levels? i.e. can I expect that when I get more than the 995 unbuffed spellpower I have now, that I will also see a big improvement to my average dps in GSB/RoS where I averaged around 1200-1400 dps?

    To the people who take the time to read and reply to my questions in an informed manner, you have my thanks!

    P.S. I really like Bluedot's site. I've posted several questions to him via email and he replies very quickly. Considering that you don't really have to pay him anything to get his informed perspective, it is an outstanding resource. i just gave him $20 because I like his site and his passion for the mage class. *end shameless product placemet*
    Last edited by Wiggles1; 09-21-2011 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Default Mage dps

    You are somewhat viable. On any AoE fight you *should* top the parse so make sure your Raid Leader lets you AoE (think Zilas). On single target fights you will be behind Warriors by alot and rogues by a bit (assuming equal gear and skill). Any target switching will hit you harder as well. Learn your BS-SC/Ele rotation well enough that you can keep it up on the run. Until you get the 4 piece HK crystal its your best bet.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker ChinesePanda's Avatar
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    Bluedot is a good player but he is nowhere near the best. He is extremely vocal about his opinion which is very commendable but the better mages like to keep the best information within their inner circles.

    His opinions should be acknowledged and interpreted but people who blindly follow him without understanding and cite his website like the Bible annoy me more than those damn Mormons that preach at my door.

    My advice to you; figure it out yourself. Nobody is perfect but many are closer than bluedot's guides. I would hope that you don't let his guides become your limit and instead let only the game's mechanics prevent you from going further.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    if you want a real mage dps guide visit
    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...guide-pve.html

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeres the Pyro View Post
    if you want a real mage dps guide visit
    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...guide-pve.html
    Don't.

    Bluedots website is a very good choice, but don't just copypaste his specs and macros. Look at each spec and figure out for yourself why it is used. It'll lead to being a much more competant mage in the long run.
    Last edited by Void Seraphi; 09-21-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    You can't get there from here, Alice.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinesePanda View Post
    Bluedot is a good player but he is nowhere near the best. He is extremely vocal about his opinion which is very commendable but the better mages like to keep the best information within their inner circles.

    His opinions should be acknowledged and interpreted but people who blindly follow him without understanding and cite his website like the Bible annoy me more than those damn Mormons that preach at my door.

    My advice to you; figure it out yourself. Nobody is perfect but many are closer than bluedot's guides. I would hope that you don't let his guides become your limit and instead let only the game's mechanics prevent you from going further.
    This about sums up my feeling on bluedot's site. It's an excellent starting point for new players but is by no means the best. I regularly send new mages looking to get started to bluedot's site; however, i also explain to them it's only a guide and the best thing they can do is practice and try new things. What works for one person does not always work for another.

    As an example, I've been the main archon in raids since I first downed Duke back in March, I have tried almost every permutation of archon, my spec is not on his website and my rotation is slightly different. I parse 1100+ dps on the boss dummy self buffed (no vials/powerstones/filet/etc). Why? I tried stuff for myself. And gear...that helps too
    Last edited by Adetia; 09-21-2011 at 11:59 AM.

  7. #7
    Champion Carolius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggles1 View Post
    Background: I just started raiding a week ago in GSB (clear) and RoS (3 bosses). My gear is not all that good-mostly crafted set-piece stuff and I still have a lot of t1 gear. However, in those raids I parsed pretty good- I was usually top 3 or 4 and on two of the foci I was tops according to ACT, using all available pots and other damage enhancers. I run a pyro build for now, soon to be stormacaller, and I follow Bluedot's site pretty closely re: macros, builds, gearing, etc. My MMO background is mostly pvp in WoW (gladiator/arena master mage, horde), so I try to be diligent when attempting to contribute to a raid. I am amazed that a mage can step into a raid with my kind of gear and put out those numbers. I was expecting to parse around 800-1,000 on average. On a few fights like the foci, I hit around 1,400 dps.
    All 4 callings walk into GSB/RoS with similar gear and a mage's numbers are competitive. All 4 walk into HK with BiS from GSB/RoS and that is no longer the case.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolius View Post
    All 4 callings walk into GSB/RoS with similar gear and a mage's numbers are competitive. All 4 walk into HK with BiS from GSB/RoS and that is no longer the case.
    Get better mages.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolius View Post
    All 4 callings walk into GSB/RoS with similar gear and a mage's numbers are competitive. All 4 walk into HK with BiS from GSB/RoS and that is no longer the case.
    Your mages suck. I have no relic and my jewelry is not bis, I didn't grind pvp for rank 5+ gear and I don't have a synergy crystal. Yet I do top 3 ae and top 5 st dps pretty consistently against warriors and rogues who have relics or HK weapons. The only person who really consistently beats me is our top Mage who has some HK drops. Tonite I expect we get to see what our new app can do, he has a few pieces of HK set gear and the pvp crystal. Should be interesting.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Berzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggles1 View Post
    Heyo fellow mages-

    a- For those of you mages who are in HK, exactly how competitive are we with DPS? I know that each boss has unique mechanics, so my question is very general- can we give a warrior or rogue a run for their money, in general?

    b- Are my numbers indicative of the fact that mages scale better than other classes at lower gear-levels? i.e. can I expect that when I get more than the 995 unbuffed spellpower I have now, that I will also see a big improvement to my average dps in GSB/RoS where I averaged around 1200-1400 dps?

    To the people who take the time to read and reply to my questions in an informed manner, you have my thanks!
    a) Murdantix is one of the only fights where mages are not carrying the raid in HK. Every fight with AoE involved (most fights in HK) Mages are dominant, competitive and are a neccessity to the group.

    Most of the mage trash QQ is based on there first glimpse of HK, getting dominated on the parsers while fighting murdantix. Firstly that fight favors melee, and requires skill on the casters side to keeping their rotations with minimal mistakes.

    As far as competitiveness on the meters, mages are consistantly in the top few (sometimes not Murdantix). I am only 4/11 HK but the bosses I have seen thus far seem to prove that.

    b) As far as scaling goes, I believe its the opposite. After getting geared out through HK gear and with the synergy crystals, mages seem to start shooting off. Your numbers are well considering its your first week of raiding. Alot of the T1 raiding fights however favor casters imo.

    A tip for you is learn the stormcaller class :P Expand beyond bluedots guides and tweak builds and rotations that better benefit you.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    Mages have the best gear scaling and synergy's among all classes.
    Also, we have the stormcaller.
    Last edited by Halman; 09-21-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara
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    Mages have the best AoE but many other classes also come with great AoE, such as Inquisitor/icar(every raid should have a t least one for Soul Drain debuff) and sabodancers(who do AoE with their single target rotation). Depending on your raid comp, having mages go AoE can be overkill, tbh, and it is the case in my guild(with the exception of matron). I don't NEED to AoE on Zilas and I don't NEED to AoE on grug, so you know what? I don't. While sc/ele parses higher than pyro for me on a stand and cast fight, Zilas has too much target switching and circle running, so that while you may parse higher with sc/ele, I find I do more straight DPS to the boss with pyro/ele, which is a great spec because there is nothing to build up(unless you have combustion stacks, but that considerably more insignificant compared to electrified stacks/DoTs), allowing you to switch targets and continue doing your normal rotation with minimal DPS loss. With Grugonim, those adds die fast enough already, and getting 3 stacks of electrified after every burrow/tower phase is just plain miserable(DoT specs aren't even worth attempting here,imo), pyro/ele also parses lower here, but my boss DPS is higher with pyro/ele again, for the same reasons.

    To answer your question(I kind of forgot what it was), you are doing great for you gear. Viability depends on the raid you are joining. Mages > clerics in ST DPS but clerics bust out some pretty sweet AoE(not sc/ele quality, but it's still damn good), and inquisicars are outstanding support heals/dps and also come with decent AoE.

    I'm losing my train of thought here and I have to go so I'll end with this... Mages are tougher than most classes which leads to a lot of bad information and mass QQ, but if you don't suck(it sounds like you don't) you will have a viable DPS spec for every raid fight out there. A good mage will out DPS a mediocre warrior/rogue and both contribute excellent numbers to damage.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinesePanda View Post
    Bluedot is a good player but he is nowhere near the best. He is extremely vocal about his opinion which is very commendable but the better mages like to keep the best information within their inner circles.
    This is a common critique that people bring up. I would like to take this opportunity to counter it.

    When I publish a build it is viewed and tested by thousands of people. Thousands of people critique and find even the slightest fault. Every day I have to defend and justify every tiny little aspect of my builds and rotations. Because I am human inevitably, faults and errors are found that I had no idea were there. My builds therefore evolve and grow, I have to admit fault and make the correction, but the end result is very very strong builds.

    If a build is kept within the "inner circle" of "better mages" no know sees it, tests, or critiques it. I am confident that most of these better builds are actually inferior without their users ever knowing it, or are situational based on that individual raid composition.

    The point is, there is no inner circle of better mages that have a secret list of epic amazing builds. I just cannot possibly describe every possible situation in a guide. People will often optimize one of my builds to fit their scenario, and then convince themselves that it is a better build, and arguably it is, but only for their situation. I have tried to give people builds that will work for any raid composition, but can be easily optimized, and I constantly encourage people to do so. I think for the most part I have succeeded.

    Even if I am not a 7th Circle Mage Master ;)

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    <3 Bluedot and all your work

    As Bluedot has said use the info he has provided, and take it and adpat it to use it to your own advantages to make it work best for you in your situation, fight, boss, etc.

    No 2 guilds/raid grps are identical, and because of that fact, thats where those little "inner circle strats/builds" come from, as it different players tailoring the builds/play styles to suits their style, fight, raid setup, strat, etc.

    Bluedots work is great, its on the idividual to make it the best it can be.

  15. #15
    XiL
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    Champion of Telara XiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedot View Post
    This is a common critique that people bring up. I would like to take this opportunity to counter it.

    When I publish a build it is viewed and tested by thousands of people. Thousands of people critique and find even the slightest fault. Every day I have to defend and justify every tiny little aspect of my builds and rotations. Because I am human inevitably, faults and errors are found that I had no idea were there. My builds therefore evolve and grow, I have to admit fault and make the correction, but the end result is very very strong builds.

    If a build is kept within the "inner circle" of "better mages" no know sees it, tests, or critiques it. I am confident that most of these better builds are actually inferior without their users ever knowing it, or are situational based on that individual raid composition.

    The point is, there is no inner circle of better mages that have a secret list of epic amazing builds. I just cannot possibly describe every possible situation in a guide. People will often optimize one of my builds to fit their scenario, and then convince themselves that it is a better build, and arguably it is, but only for their situation. I have tried to give people builds that will work for any raid composition, but can be easily optimized, and I constantly encourage people to do so. I think for the most part I have succeeded.

    Even if I am not a 7th Circle Mage Master ;)
    Wrong is still wrong and bads still stay bad.

    I do not, have not, and never will support bluedot's guides.

    Signed,
    7th Circle Mage Master

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