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Thread: End-game mage DPS

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedot View Post
    I remember it too actually. I could go on about all the reasons and try to justify it, but truth be told I have made some posts that I regret. My wife would tell you I'm still abrasive and arrogant, but fortunately I have learned how unproductive it is to be that way on the internet.

    Also I learned to not post after drunk raid night... ;)

    I think this post should wrap up past stuff. Everyone screws up, but not everyone is big enough to admit it. So I am not going to look at any past things.

    Ty, Bluedot.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluejaye View Post
    And it would be great if you shared your spec with the community, but I suspect you might live in fear of the criticism that will rain down on you like it does on Bluedot.
    Please, don't assume anything about me if you don't know anything about me. I'm more than willing to help people when asked, but i'm not gonna run around and hold your hand. I help people that ask for help and wish to improve themselves, trying to help people that don't want your help will only piss them off and/or get you trolled...i'm sure bluedot will agree ;)

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...Rfiqkrz.McVz.L

    This is my bread and butter Archon spec, it's actually not anything terribly special. Arresting Presence is so awesome that it's practically OP, both for bosses and for trash. I'd start listing examples but there's too many to list, it works on more than you think it would and even trivializes encounters like Herald! The 4 in pyro gets you pyro armor and improved casting speed on VB, SF, and lolLF.

    I will never understand why people go into 6 pyro just to take 10% more damage; you're an archon. you're support, you're extra squishy, taking 10% extra damage will only get you killed even faster and your #1 job is to stay alive! Giving up GoP for 2% int (SC, SP, and mana which = scaling on LF and MF) and AP is more than worth it IMO.

    All that being said, I've found this to be the best spec for ME, whether it works for you or not is another story but you will not convince me there is a better raiding archon spec (with the current talent trees at least).
    Last edited by Adetia; 09-22-2011 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakkath View Post
    While I somewhat agree with you you also have to remember that bluedot used to be as abrasively arrogant as idiots like Xil/nerf/etc. He's toned it down a lot of late and seems to be getting a taste of his own medicine.

    I don't think the mage community is that bad. There's plenty of people who are genuinely helpful and courteous. There are also ******bag trolls but they are easy to ignore and people who are offended by their behavior are in for a rough time in general on the internet.
    Bluedot has never been as big a A-hat as Xil. Information hoarding is useless. It's one thing to post your spec and take the critique as bluedot has and another to take shots at it while hiding behind trade secrets.

    I will leave it to you to figure out which takes more balls to do.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinesePanda View Post
    I think that is quite conceited of you. You just recently joined a new guild that carried you through 6 bosses in Hammerknell. You haven't experienced developing your class in the face of adversity and instead summarize other mage's work then publicize it as your own.

    Now that you have a cult following from your plagiarism, your facade completely changes.
    ^Truth

    Bluedot simply recreated what other players posted on the forums and put advertisements and a donate button next to the information.

    He has done nothing but ensure that every bad mage who looks for help on his website stays bad and can't understand why. So they come here making rant threads about how underpowered and useless mage is.

    Thanks for the help bluedot but bad players don't need help being bad. They nailed that already. Tardleague theorycraft is the bane of all MMOs.
    Last edited by XiL; 09-22-2011 at 12:17 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiL View Post
    ^Truth

    Bluedot simply recreated what other players posted on the forums and put advertisements and a donate button next to the information.

    He has done nothing but ensure that every bad mage who looks for help on his website stays bad and can't understand why.
    I completely indifferent to Bluedot, but I definitely don't see the reason for the hate. But the reason I quoted you...If he just put up other people's theorycrafted crafted ideas and rotations, then isn't the community to blame? Or are those people whose ideas he stole the people you are referring to as bad mages?

    I remember some mage bragging that he parsed 2k on Murdantix. I forget who, but this mage was in one of the top guilds, meaning he is certainly more geared than most mages, particularly me. I've missed a few wednesday farm nights due to RL stuff, so I have 0 vendor gear, and i was gone last week and come back yesterday completely rusty and parsed 1851 as sc/ele with a LOT of derp moments on Murdantix. No, I'm not bragging(it's far from anything to brag about), but what I am saying is that I've seen Bluedot's rotation and it's pretty damn close to what I would do on a dummy and, had I played Murdantix better I'm sure I'd be up there in the 2k range as well(I mis-timed a lot of the knockbacks as an example of how I was rusty. The only issue is that I never do on a dummy what I do in a raid, I adapt my rotation to the fight at hand.

    So bringing it back around to my main point, is that what you consider to be bad mages? People that just blindly try to pull off a rotation without working with the fights? I would consider that a bad mage, but to a new player, learning and understanding the class(IE practicing the rotation on a dummy) is ESSENTIAL to knowing how you can adapt your rotation to a fight. Bads will be bads, I agree, but the idea that posting information to at least point newcomers(to the game and the spec) in the right direction is keeping players bad seems a tad absurd to me.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggles1 View Post
    OP Quesion:

    Back on topic (and away from the omfg im way bettor pro gaymer than bluedot stuff)...


    Mages are totally viable atm, our AOE is still pretty much king and while we are a bit behind on the single target chloro healing is excellent and archon is fine (if boring) also.




    Now back to the bluedot bashing:

    He may not be the most elite mage on the forums, but he does a lot more for the community than anyone else I can name so kudos for that and I gaurentee he has helped many players become useful raiding mages.
    -Cane
    Arcanas - Co-Leader of Purge to Win, Bloodiron Guardian PvPvE Guild.
    Hammerknell 11/11, World #5th Akylios

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiL View Post
    He has done nothing but ensure that every bad mage who looks for help on his website stays bad
    Wouldn't be an issue if new mages had anywhere else to look for information, the mages in this elite "inner circle" don't seem too inclined to share.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guaritor View Post
    Wouldn't be an issue if new mages had anywhere else to look for information, the mages in this elite "inner circle" don't seem too inclined to share.
    Because whenever an 'elite' Mage in their 'inner circle' were to post, they had their thoroughly tested knowledge shoved back down their throats by napkin math that proved jack**** about how in-game mechanics actually worked, along with legions of incompetent Mages backing a site that looks remotely professional due to having a Donate button next to the information.

    The Mage forums are full of crap due to the majority of Mage players being absolutely and unutterably horrible. There are snippets of good knowledge here and there, but the majority of good Mages have told this community to **** off. Will we help you in-game if you seek out our help? Gladly. But will we post here and be hassled to defend a spec that's known to be good amongst the well-played Mages, but is 'terrible' in the eyes of incompetent players due to a huge influx of misinformation? Absolutely not.

    Most Mages should have rerolled Clerics, in all honesty. Their rotations are far more simple, and you can immediately see the results of what they do, as opposed to a lot of Mage specs. Theorycrafters, testers and other intelligent players that actually put forth effort to be the best of the best in this game are the ones that will excel in the Calling. The players that require hand-holding and being told what to do and what to spec, who lack the ability to read information already laid out for you in the game are the ones that will suffer from the higher complexity of the Calling.

    But it's alright, we will continue to excel. When buffs occur due to mass complaints of terrible players, we will be the ones to flourish, and we will continue to keep quiet unless seeked out in-game.

    Edited in: Mind you, Bluedot's guides are not terrible. They're fantastic for getting a foot-hold on the Calling, but if you are unable to take what he has written down and proceed to a higher step, you will most definitely be one of the bad Mages that make up the majority of this community.
    Last edited by Arianna; 09-22-2011 at 04:31 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
    This thread reminds me of a few months back when Deadlysight, or whatever his name was, was holding on to his precious AB/BS rotation and posting near 2k parses on plut prior to the fl/lf nerf. He made the mistake of showing his damage breakdown and the theorycrafters went to town and nearly figured out the rotation. This forced him to post his rotation as he didn't want people mutilating his hard work. The thing is, it made a lot of mages in raids more viable as DPS roles helping the community. One would think that sort of contribution would be much more gratifying.
    Had to reply to this.

    First off, as far as I am aware, Deadlysight has quit (Or else server transferred).
    Secondly, SC/Ele was nerfed into the ground after this post became widespread knowledge.

    High-end Mages have a very good reason for holding on to their own knowledge without making it public knowledge. I refuse to post anything worthwhile on these forums anymore for more than one reason, but I have helped countless numbers of players on my server simply because they have asked for help in-game.

  10. #40
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    i love how ppl say Mages are in top 5 when it comes to dps.......... man your warriors sucks balls if you are in top 5 on ST bosses.

    and to call it out, i want you to show me a parse on Sicaron where you parse around 3.2k dps. if you can do that amount of dps i want your build ASAP........ on the other hand if you are 500 to 750 dps under 3.2k dps.... heh il just say welcome to my party

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ondesvin View Post
    i love how ppl say Mages are in top 5 when it comes to dps.......... man your warriors sucks balls if you are in top 5 on ST bosses.

    and to call it out, i want you to show me a parse on Sicaron where you parse around 3.2k dps. if you can do that amount of dps i want your build ASAP........ on the other hand if you are 500 to 750 dps under 3.2k dps.... heh il just say welcome to my party
    Isn't sicaron the fight that people keep saying is bugged, giving warrs more dps then it should?

  12. #42
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    A good and dedicated player does not need the 'chew and put in the mouth' style guides that some of the 'renowned theorycrafters' are breeding left and right. Reading a guide, gearing up like said in that guide and using the rotations and macros from the guide will not make you a good player, wont even make you an average. So if there is no real return from that, why write guides? The only way you can help the community is increasing the numbers of REALLY GOOD players, not the below average ones.

    Oh, and Trion has a really bad record of nerfing any competetive mage spec we have come up with, so that's not like adding inclination to share them with the public.
    Last edited by Halman; 09-22-2011 at 05:35 PM.

  13. #43
    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Sweet! I made it in someone's signature!

    Cheers buddy!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halman View Post
    A good and dedicated player does not need the 'chew and put in the mouth' style guides that some of the 'renowned theorycrafters' are breeding left and right. Reading a guide, gearing up like said in that guide and using the rotations and macros from the guide will not make you a good player, wont even make you an average. So if there is no real return from that, why write guides? The only way you can help the community is increasing the numbers of REALLY GOOD players, not the below average ones.

    Oh, and Trion has a really bad record of nerfing any competetive mage spec we have come up with, so that's not like adding inclination to share them with the public.
    They don't need the guides to show them how to play, but they do assist with becoming a better player faster. It's like scientific peer review. Someone presents their findings (build + guide) and others in the field (class) take that and test it. A good player will compare it to existing builds for that soul/combo as well as other leading dps/heal builds. They'll also try and tweak it to make it better. Having a guide as a starting point cuts down the "grinding time" it takes to do the initial testing/theorycrafting so a good player will be able to evaluate more builds in a shorter period of time.

    And bad players do become average by using them. I'll take a bad player using a cookie cutter over some build they've dreamt up themselves any day of the week.
    Last edited by RagnorIronclad; 09-22-2011 at 07:06 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RagnorIronclad View Post
    They don't need the guides to show them how to play, but they do assist with becoming a better player faster. It's like scientific peer review. Someone presents their findings (build + guide) and others in the field (class) take that and test it. A good player will compare it to existing builds for that soul/combo as well as other leading dps/heal builds. They'll also try and tweak it to make it better. Having a guide as a starting point cuts down the "grinding time" it takes to do the initial testing/theorycrafting so a good player will be able to evaluate more builds in a shorter period of time.

    And bad players do become average by using them. I'll take a bad player using a cookie cutter over some build they've dreamt up themselves any day of the week.
    The only thing I will (strongly) disagree on, as apparent in my previous post, is your last two sentences.

    A bad Mage is a bad Mage, period. The line is so blatantly clear between a good Mage player and a bad Mage player that a guide is not going to force them into an average player (The exception being Chloromancer, more often than not; And even then, a large portion of Mages can not grasp the concept of MOAR DAMAGE = MOAR HEALZ). There really is no exception.

    Rogue/Warrior/Cleric Callings do not have a clear cut, defining line while taking skill into account; You could easily transform a terrible Warrior into a half decent one by throwing them a build and a macro. You can not do the same for a Mage. As a Mage, you either know and understand the spec you are playing, or your performance is subparr. This is why the majority of the good Mages feel no need to post unnecessary guides on the forums for the general Mage community. If you want to be good and have half a brain, you seek someone out to help you. The difference between reading a guide and 'thinking' you are performing the rotation properly, and having someone essentially tutor you at the Target Dummies is massive.

    That is why (And this is SHARED ideology between ALL top Mages; I am not in any way, shape or form, talking out of my ***) I say:
    Mind you, Bluedot's guides are not terrible. They're fantastic for getting a foot-hold on the Calling, but if you are unable to take what he has written down and proceed to a higher step, you will most definitely be one of the bad Mages that make up the majority of this community.
    Last edited by Arianna; 09-22-2011 at 07:16 PM.

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