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Thread: SC/Ele best PVE ST raid spec ? Seeking Data

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    Default SC/Ele best PVE ST raid spec ? Seeking Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    On the first tab, click "Load" next to your preferred spec. I currently have only setup chloro, lock/necro, and sc/ele specs. If you're using a different spec, then I would just use lock/necro if it doesn't have 30% crit bonus, and sc/ele if it does have 30% crit bonus. Sc/ele is the highest single-target and AoE spec at the moment, so the spreadsheet has that loaded by default.
    Have any more factual data on that ?
    Assuming BS spec and stuff - but anything more detailed... parses... stand and nuke or also full mobility ?
    Last edited by lgw; 09-04-2011 at 01:35 PM.
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    Plane Touched Slythorh's Avatar
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    I know skelos has some parses of SC / Ele. Hopefully he'll pop in and share some.

    The actual stand and nuke DPS is great, especially using the hailstorm / arctic blast rotation.

    As for movement fights, as long as you keep up electrify stacks before you move it can be competitive as well.


    The ST rotation can be pretty daunting to learn at first though, or at least I had a problem with it. Once you learn it however, its much like riding a bike and becomes second nature.

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    I played SC/Ele beating all T3, from 1.0 to 1.2, so I pretty much know that spec.
    Afterwards I've been getting better results using Necro/Lock, so I've never tried SC/Ele again in HK except when on AOE duty. Hence I'm looking for data with new gear and things.
    Last edited by lgw; 09-04-2011 at 02:44 PM.
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    What fights do you want to see parses for so I can get some together and share my thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabolicWeapon View Post
    What fights do you want to see parses for so I can get some together and share my thoughts?
    i caught the murdantix parse you had posted earlier: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/murdantix.png/

    that's very impressive. i had a couple of questions about that kind of dps if you could help please, so i can improve my own dps, and help some of the other mages in my guild.

    first off, what kind of HK drops do you have? like trash drop staff, or trash main hand/murd offhand? other gear of notable mention?

    second, are you following the boss on that fight or stationary in the middle? i ask just to compare to my own dps in this fight vs mobility. our guild has all ranged follow behind and we're moving constantly. i was using sc/ele for the fight originally, but was having trouble with stacks falling off on knockbacks, so i swapped up to defile/necro.

    third, what kind of raid buffs/consumables are you all using? i would assume archon/bard buffs as norm, but any we may not be thinking about?

    fourth, are you doing anything different as far as spell priorities that aren't considered "standard" as posted in all the sc/ele BS/AB chat that goes on in these forums?

    and any other info you may be able to help with would be appreciated. thanks in advance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabolicWeapon View Post
    What fights do you want to see parses for so I can get some together and share my thoughts?
    Cool thing.

    Some more info on the above Murdanatix parse would be nice.
    That fight is not perfect for SC/Ele, but still doable - no target switching, some mobility required but not overly much.

    Matron isn't really a contest, perfect SC/Ele fight.

    Zilas could be interesting.
    Although at least for our guild it's a shared work between SC/Ele on constant AOE in the center, and Necro/Lock taking care of Ghosts and weakening / killing Magi while on the platforms.

    King is probably the best one, as long as everybody is treated equal with regards to the Revenants. DPS stops might skew this, but they kinda hurt both.

    Sicaron I duno - purge duty means Necro/Lock anyway, and the blue field does interesting things to different DPS specs.

    Estrode... *gg*
    ... and I only have limited knowledge of Grugonim, so I can't really say if the fight favours one spec or another.


    TLDR: Thanks for sharing, Murdantix, King and maybe Zilas would be cool.
    Last edited by lgw; 09-04-2011 at 10:29 PM.
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    1) I have the Stewards Staff off trash, and also Epic Nyx's Headpiece, Legendary Nyx's Gloves other than that it's just Ros/Gsb stuff and Prestige rank 6 crystal.

    Stats unbuffed no consumables: 1379 sp, 822 sc, 400 focus

    2) The way we do it is all casters are following the boss and have to spread out and position themselves to best max the dps. I'm basically running the entire fight except when casting Lightning strike, Thunderbolt, Arctic Blast and Raging Storm. I utilize the mobility of cloudburst to max my dps, although I failed hard at it this week.

    3) We use the standard amount of buffs, nothing really special here. You have a cleric doing their 7% magic debuff? Make sure your other mages aren't casting Neddras Torture cause they don't stack.

    4) My rotation is definitely different than what most people use in all the threads. While it is not the best on a target dummy it is probably the easiest to maintain in raids 100% of the time. Maximizing your dps with a crazy rotation is all great and all, but if that costs you letting electrify stacks drop because something in the encounter happens, than you'll take an even bigger hit to dps. Knowing when to toggle SF ON and OFF is definitely one thing to practice. Remember to be flexible in your rotation when things go haywire. The most important things are keeping electrify and ice shear on the target, casting cloudburst, and not wasting charge.


    Other thoughts about dpsing as mage in Hammerknell:

    People need to stop comparing themselves to other classes especially since every encounter favors one particular spec/class/etc. Start competing with other people within your class and have fun killing e-dragons with friends.

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    I don't have that murdantix parse anymore apparently since I reformatted my computer so I'll try to post on here this reset when we clear up to Akylios again on Wed. Here's a King Molinar/Prince Dollin parse:

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/princer.png/

    We use single target strategy for this fight so King Molinar and Prince Dollin are completly separated and we have ranged attack Prince and melee attack Molinar. I use a little bit of aoe when add spawns as we stack this on top of Molinar and just attack both of them. Mostly though it is single target dps.

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    Skelos is right about not comparing ourselves to other classes. If you start looking at Sicaron parses and thinking "I'm never going to hit 3k+ DPS like our Warrior and Rogues are" then you're correct. You won't. And you shouldn't because that is a melee-friendly encounter.

    But there are plenty of other encounters in HK that DO favor Mages (I would say most, honestly). For example, the reason Skelos is the highest parse on King/Prince is because melee class have to chase Revenants, step back from Cursed Blows, stop attacking while they dodge puddles, etc etc. We use the stacking method on that fight, so obviously our Mages are at the top of the parse because it is constant AoE for the entire fight.

    I have similar stats to Skelos (1377 SP, 881 crit, 408 focus (no PvP gear)) and I find that Pyro/Ele is scaling the best, personally. The reason I am not a fan of the SC/Ele spec (especially the Hailstone/Arctic Blast rotation) is that you need such perfect execution that it almost never happens in a raid environment. For example, if you look at some of the rotations that have been posted, you BARELY have enough charge to turn things on and off where they say you should. Now what happens if you turn on your Static Flux and get hit with a knockback? Now you have to run back into range, and you just waste 15 charge getting back. Now your next Lightning Strike isn't going to have + damage. Was that worth it?

    So take the dummy specs with a grain of salt. There is certainly information to take from those discussions (for example, super-powered Hailstorm is quite easy to do in AoE situations (<BS>, Forked Lightning x 3, <SF>, Hailstorm) and yields some strong hits. But don't stand at a dummy expecting what you parse there to perfectly translate into a raid scenario.
    Last edited by FireWraith; 09-04-2011 at 11:21 PM.

    GSB: 5/5, RoS: 4/4, HK: 10/11
    GP: 4/4, DH: 4/4

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    First thanks for the solid input.
    I personally have zero problem with Mage performance in HK, I'm just trying to optimise in class here. When not Chloro I usually run Defile Lock, and switch to SC/Ele if hardcore AOE is needed and our two resident SC/Ele lovers are not available.

    King parse looks to be at about the same level or maybe a bit stronger than what our Lichlocks are doing on that fight - 1500andabit, but pure ST in that case. (I'm tank on that fight - best I had there was 1750 DPS and 1350 HPS .)
    Skelos - who are the other Mages on that fight, and what specs do they use ?

    When running SC/Ele I kinda use a simplyfied ST priority system (no rotation):
    * naturally keep up Elec and IS
    * try to keep RS and LS on CD with SF as good as possible
    * when AB/HS & Charge is available, toggle BS with SF to build stacks at the same time, and fire AB/HS just afterwards
    AOE is the same, just cycling through FL/LF and mixing in some ST nukes as needed.

    All together though I think Necro/Lock, SC/Ele and Pyro/Ele are all in a good spot, with unique advantages each. Although I like runing Defilelock I'm kinda afraid that their 4-SC is significantly stronger than the others, and they will pull ahead too much.
    Last edited by lgw; 09-04-2011 at 11:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    First thanks for the solid input.
    I personally have zero problem with Mage performance in HK, I'm just trying to optimise in class here. When not Chloro I usually run Defile Lock, and switch to SC/Ele if hardcore AOE is needed and our two resident SC/Ele lovers are not available.

    King parse looks to be at about the same level or maybe a bit stronger than what our Lichlocks are doing on that fight - 1500andabit, but pure ST in that case. (I'm tank on that fight - best I had there was 1750 DPS and 1350 HPS .)
    Skelos - who are the other Mages on that fight, and what specs do they use ?

    When running SC/Ele I kinda use a simplyfied ST priority system (no rotation):
    * naturally keep up Elec and IS
    * try to keep RS and LS on CD with SF as good as possible
    * when AB/HS & Charge is available, toggle BS with SF to build stacks at the same time, and fire AB/HS just afterwards
    AOE is the same, just cycling through FL/LF and mixing in some ST nukes as needed.

    All together though I think Necro/Lock, SC/Ele and Pyro/Ele are all in a good spot, with unique advantages each. Although I like runing Defilelock I'm kinda afraid that their 4-SC is significantly stronger than the others, and they will pull ahead too much.
    The Stormcaller synergy crystal is garbage compared to the Warlock one. Just something to keep in mind.

    GSB: 5/5, RoS: 4/4, HK: 10/11
    GP: 4/4, DH: 4/4

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    I wouldn't call it garbage.

    The 2 point bonus is probably about equal:
    * SC: 75 SP
    * WL: 10% crit on DOTs (~2/3s of damage) = 260 SC * 2/3 = 175 SC ~= 90 SP

    The 4 point bonus is definately stronger for WL, but hardly anything compares.
    4-SC still is an effektive 3-5% increase (considering ~200% base damage mod, varies with amount of CB usage), and certainly more slanted towards AOE. Still 3% of 2k DPS is +60 DPS, which is far from bad.
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    Loving this thread so far - legitimate mages who PvE are posting in here.

    This week I parsed
    Murd: 2001
    Zilas: 2090 (but spent a lot of time dead due to an escaped butcher/had to wait for a lazer to res - with full uptime Raidrifts predicted over 2.6K)
    Matron: 2425

    Stats:
    1298 SP
    823 SC
    323 Focus
    (yet to get a HK item, next week I'll have the legendary gloves though, we've been really unlucky on mage loot).

    The only fight I've encountered so far where you can't use SC/Ele effectively is Estrode (and that is simply due to the fact we don't run SC's due to the strat we use).


    @Diablic Weapon - any chance we could see what your rotation is? I've been trying some of the Hailstorm variants in GSB/RoS this week and I find they simply don't hold up well due to fight mechanics. All the numbers I posted above are from the AB/BS rotation I use.

    @LGW/Fire Wraith - I agree that the Warlock Crystal is far superior to the SC/Ele one, once I have 4 pieces I'll probably be using only Necro/Lock Defile style.

    Also @ FW - I've found Pyro/Ele to have really weird aggro tables and it to be quiet easy at times to accidentally pull aggro . Do you have the same issues, and would you be willing to maybe introduce us to your rotation?
    Last edited by ArchivistCarrion; 09-05-2011 at 01:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchivistCarrion View Post
    Also @ FW - I've found Pyro/Ele to have really weird aggro tables and it to be quiet easy at times to accidentally pull aggro . Do you have the same issues, and would you be willing to maybe introduce us to your rotation?
    You have to know what spec your tanks are running in order to properly deal with aggro.

    Since Pyro has some of the most insane burst damage in the game, you need to wait for a bit until your tank has aggro. Usually on the pull I'll drop a Countdown on the boss because all of the damage is back-loaded. After Countdown, I build up Pillaging Stones and Searing Vitality to give the tank more time, and throw down my ground of power.

    What I do next depends on the tank's spec. Any spec with Spotter's Order + Battlefield Awareness should have enough threat that you can immediately move into a Heatwave + IE cooldown once you have a full bar of charge (helps even more if your tank is being incriminated and is intercepting a Warrior or something).

    If your tank is running some sort of hybridy Reaver-Pally anti-magic spec, then it takes a bit longer for them to establish threat. In that case, I'll usually go through a full rotation of just Flamebolt/Fireball before I use the cooldowns. Our tank usually requests that Flaring Power be delayed if they're running this spec, so people don't go all out too quickly. Obviously you want to time your cooldowns with Flaring Power.

    One thing to remember, ESPECIALLY during HW + IE burn phases, is to space out your Cinderbursts. Getting 2 CB procs in succession makes every Mage giddy with joy. But as we build more and more spell power, CB starts hitting for some insane damage (I've hit for 11-12k in raids) and if you fire off 2 of those in fairly rapid succession, you've got a good chance of pulling. So if I get a 2nd CB proc fairly close after I've just used one, I let the timer on it run down a good ways before I use it.

    But after the first 30 seconds or so of a fight, you should be able to go all out. The only people I've really seen pull aggro after the first 30 seconds is a R8 Warrior with a quite a bit of HK loot as well (over 3.3k sustained DPS). Those people just have to be memory wiped by the Archon. But as a Pyro you won't come close to that sustained DPS so after you handle your initial burst (you can burst much higher than melee classes with your first set of CDs), you should be ok.
    Last edited by FireWraith; 09-05-2011 at 05:24 AM.

    GSB: 5/5, RoS: 4/4, HK: 10/11
    GP: 4/4, DH: 4/4

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    Rift Disciple Izrahfil's Avatar
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    Ele/Pyro Is Competing with Stormcaller builds for AOE Dps.

    As far as single target go's its sub-par to Necro/Lock Or some sort of Death-Mage Build (like zoomancer etc).
    http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/69145/Israafil.jpg

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