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Thread: PVP Pyro at p8. "Min/Maxing" the build

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    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    Default PVP Pyro at p8. "Min/Maxing" the build

    First of all, this topic is not about the viability of pyro compared to other specs.

    I want a pyro spec because I like pyro for some reasons. If you think pyro is not viable at all, just don't participate in any way. Thank you.

    I'm convinced, that pyro is still very viable. To me that is true at least.

    I've been messing around with various builds and would like your thoughts/share of experience which build I should prefer.

    Basically I have run 3 obvious variations:

    51Pyro/15AM.

    It's very hard hitting, you got all the shiny tools pyro has to offer and I really liked it. What I do not like about it, however, is the mana management and some "low dps" streaks when you're having bad proc-luck and HW is down.

    18AM/38Pyro/10WL.

    To somewhat counter the felt low dps when you need to spam fireballs I thought that adding Opportunity is a good idea. We all know it proccs very often. Also mana becomes a non-issue thanks to SL:M. This is important because I like to make heavy use of Fire Storm as instant dmg source when anything else is on cooldown or not proccing. Reconstruct paired with Hastened Withdrawal makes for some nice runaway and hiding behind things to regain a little health, too.

    15-18AM/xxPyro/xxArchon.

    It's not helping you in terms of Dmg besides adding some fire instants. You gain the basic buffs of Archon (just like a 51 WL) and get an additional shield plus a quite hard hitting dot that also helps the mana problem. Overall I wasn't happy with it compared to the WL option or the 51Pyro option.

    I know you can go more hybrid by using Dom for instance (Hi Bleeds ^^) but that is not the kind of spec I'm looking for.

    So basically it comes down to your input, I really would like to know what you think about it. Is Opportunity and SL:M really worth losing quite some dmg to you? Would you stick with 51 and just learn to excessively use Smoldering Power and pots?

    Am I an idiot for not liking the deeper Archon options because I'm missing the main point or something?

    I just want to start a nice debate on how pyro is put to it's best use. We're talking WF builds here btw, 1on1 and oPVP are of no concern.

    Again, the question if pyro is viable at all shall not be discussed here. Do not be afraid, I always got my 51WL, a Dom and a SC spec, too ;) I just need a change from time to time and I choose pyro to be one of those options for me.

    Looking forward to your opinions/ideas!

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    I plug the Archon build. I just think you get a lot of bang for your buck there. That extra shield rocks with Hastened Withdrawl. Leeching Flames is a great DoT without mana regen, with it's fantastic. You pick up extra spell crit which benefits everything, the other builds don't give you any spell crit modifier except to fireball. Curse remover. Extra 7% magic damage on demand on tough target. Volcanic bomb team dmg increase. Extra HP and defence. Nevin's Cinderbursts. Passive Mana regen for Firestorm finishing.

    I use a 32/16/18.

    Granted I don't have P8 experience with this build (long holiday) but I figured among other things the Shield factor would scale greatly with larger HP pool.

    When under attack I rotate through Burning Shield, Consuming Flames, and Talisman of Lashing rain, with Hastened Withdrawl and Flicker v.nice kite/survivabilty, First two don't stack with each other, last one does.

    Basically, Leeching Flames rocks.
    Last edited by Mezkh; 08-30-2011 at 05:39 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezkh View Post
    I plug the Archon build. I just think you get a lot of bang for your buck there. That extra shield rocks with Hastened Withdrawl. Leeching Flames is a great DoT without mana regen, with it's fantastic. You pick up extra spell crit which benefits everything, the other builds don't give you any spell crit modifier except to fireball. Curse remover. Extra 7% magic damage on demand on tough target. Volcanic bomb team dmg increase. Extra HP and defence. Nevin's Cinderbursts. Passive Mana regen for Firestorm finishing.

    I use a 32/16/18.

    Granted I don't have P8 experience with this build (long holiday) but I figured among other things the Shield factor would scale greatly with larger HP pool.

    When under attack I rotate through Burning Shield, Consuming Flames, and Talisman of Lashing rain, with Hastened Withdrawl and Flicker v.nice kite/survivabilty, First two don't stack with each other, last one does.

    Basically, Leeching Flames rocks.
    Thx for your reply. Now that you write it, I fear I might frighten people off, because the title says p8. That actually only was a slow hint, that pyro becomes viable at the latest with becoming access to p8 gear (imo).

    Well, I'm sure Leeching Flames is very nice. But I admit I hate PS, that buff really always annoys me because it's awesome but I hate to reapply it ^^ Making it even stronger will make the issue even bigger. Rock Slide is actually a good idea, even more intelligence <3 But it has kind of the same problem and can be even more painful to maintain.

    In terms of group play it is a good idea nevertheless, Volcanic Bomb can make a difference. Power Drain is nice as well. And I always forget about Ashen Defense, which is really good imho.

    Question remains, if losing that many Pyro points is worth the stuff you gain by getting Archon. Hard to tell and actually the reason why I started this topic ^^

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    lgw
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    51 Pyro / 15 AM / 0 Archo is one way to go.
    But Fulmi doesn't really hit that hard anymore, and has the CD issue.

    OTOH you never want to skip Overload with Pyro, due the high amount of crit chance on your main nuke. The goodies in Pyro are for the most part attainable with 30-some points. Hence the question is how to stay mobile, survive against other hard hitters (like MMs), and how to counter healing (besides the usual Countdown, Cinderprocs, etc).
    Hence 34 Pyro / 21 AM / 11 Ele.
    Last edited by lgw; 08-30-2011 at 06:42 AM.
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...euusuts.Voro.L

    Can move points from SoS to Exhiliration, but as is I never have any mana issues

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    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    51 Pyro / 15 AM / 0 Archo is one way to go.
    But Fulmi doesn't really hit that hard anymore, and has the CD issue.

    OTOH you never want to skip Overload with Pyro, due the high amount of crit chance on your main nuke. The goodies in Pyro are for the most part attainable with 30-some points. Hence the question is how to stay mobile, survive against other hard hitters (like MMs), and how to counter healing (besides the usual Countdown, Cinderprocs, etc).
    Hence 34 Pyro / 21 AM / 11 Ele.
    Withered Veins. Interesting. I always wanted to try it but never knew with which soul it would pair good because of the ST restriction. Pyro is the answer. Interesting indeed. The shield is good too and further dmg reduction is always good. Sadly none of the root spells Elementalist has to offer are worth it, are they? Not sure if Ignite will deal any reasonable dmg with pyro but I doubt it.

    Both your suggestions would make me miss Lockdown. I love this spell tbh. And I'm having a hard time to skip Improved Ground of Power. Of course you can't always stand in your GoP but if you manage to get some stuff off while standing on it, it really is a big increase in your burst potential.

    Anyway, nice addition. Thanks for your contribution!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrial View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...euusuts.Voro.L

    Can move points from SoS to Exhiliration, but as is I never have any mana issues
    Phew, while I do have mana issues, countering them is not worth losing Overload. Actually the whole problem with pyro is, that your non-crit dmg kind of sucks. Luckily I crit a lot! ^^

    But thanks for your reply anyway!
    Last edited by Elerina; 08-30-2011 at 06:54 AM.

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    lgw
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    You could skip 1p Rift Tomb and 3p Ele (shield, 4% dmg) to get 38 Pyro, and reshuffle points to get ImpGOP.
    For me, LD wasn't really that hot with all these super mobile Warriors and Immune Rogues. And GOP works by itself - you just have to learn to quickly step (Flicker) out of it, once you get hit. And then kiting is a good idea anyway.
    That's also what Ignite is for - a spamable instant, in case no other spell is available.
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    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    You could skip 1p Rift Tomb and 3p Ele (shield, 4% dmg) to get 38 Pyro, and reshuffle points to get ImpGOP.
    For me, LD wasn't really that hot with all these super mobile Warriors and Immune Rogues. And GOP works by itself - you just have to learn to quickly step (Flicker) out of it, once you get hit. And then kiting is a good idea anyway.
    That's also what Ignite is for - a spamable instant, in case no other spell is available.
    Well, I think you are right. LD is awesome but not mandatory. Same goes for IGoP on second thought. And if I spec into Ele, I think I should take the dmg reduction and the shield. Those are real assets for a pvp build.

    I liked your SC spec, too, so I'll definitely give it a shot. Still no infight mana regen help but the healing debuff sounds good. That alone is a nice idea to experiment with.
    Last edited by Elerina; 08-30-2011 at 07:14 AM.

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    P8 I'm sitting at 8k mana unbuffed in full def setup (1150 Valor). Unless I stopcast Firestorm, even 51 Doms go cry.
    I also have around 150 Manapots sitting on my bank, that I gathered just randomly from PVP drops - might finally find some use for them.

    But mostly... you get OOC so fast now, it's super easy to just channel 3s of Revitalize and be full again. And make sure to always drink up between fights.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    P8 I'm sitting at 8k mana unbuffed in full def setup (1150 Valor). Unless I stopcast Firestorm, even 51 Doms go cry.
    I also have around 150 Manapots sitting on my bank, that I gathered just randomly from PVP drops - might finally find some use for them.

    But mostly... you get OOC so fast now, it's super easy to just channel 3s of Revitalize and be full again. And make sure to always drink up between fights.
    Yeah I got such a mana pool myself. Though, I'm quite able to burn through it in no time ^^

    I think I'm just not used to having to drink or use pots. Played too much WL involving stuff or something. Maybe I should just die more often, that would help, too

  11. #11
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    IMO if you are really wanting that 'pure deeps' spec


    From my personal experience its in 51 pyro / 15 am


    Mana management is not an issue unless you become an 'ae wh0re' but even then its fine... keep up smoldering power.. its actually quite easy once you really start making sure you use your charge up on it. Fulminate is just really nice to use but not a must have IMO.. save it for that 1 cleric you are assisting on or somethen. Or that pesky rogue to just burst him off your healers etc..

    IMO your charge is more useful in smoldering power / 20% damage.


    Just mix in match for that battle at the time. At that high rank gear I never have mana issues, Pre popping a mana pot just makes it so I can be lazy about not hitting my smoldering power button. /shrug



    Also I really like that 38 pyro / 18 am spec.. I just wish we could get more into AM so I could dump into the heal debuff for fireball.. but then


    you lose pyro so its like grrrrrr you can't have every tool in the shed I suppose.



    -edit- wanted to add your ground of power is most used anyway and it adds 100% mana regen rate. You just pew pewing with that up and smoldering power is like insane insta mana back.
    Last edited by Gebrile; 08-30-2011 at 08:03 AM.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gebrile View Post
    [...]
    Yeah I agree on Fulminate. I've been 51 Pyro the last couple days and found myself not very often using it. Of course a couple minutes into the match I made out the squishy targets and used it on them from time to time. 4k crits are still cute

    I had lots of matches in dex yesterday where I ended the match with 33 to 0 KBs and the like. I defended the dex quite often where spamming AoE is actually needed. That coupled with not dying might have formed a too severe mana issue. Maybe it's usually not even there.

    Still, the question remains if Opportunity is as big of a deal as I think or if hitting harder by being 51 is the better option. That alone causes me headaches.
    Last edited by Elerina; 08-30-2011 at 08:15 AM.

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    I also love Pyro - the whole reason I went with a mage in this game was so I could play with fire. I used to run the 51/15 Pyro/AM build but ditched it when the nerfed Fulminate into the ground. I actually ran without a Pyro build for a while after that but had to go back because I just don't really like playing anything else. My current Pyro PvP build is 34 Pyro / 16 Archon / 16 AM. I agree that getting the AM buffs up and keeping them up is a pain but the stat boosts from 5 stacks of pillaging and 6 stacks of Rock Slide really boost the damage. Plus it is nice to be able to debuff my target's magic resist. I am also a big fan of Nenvin's -> Cinderburst.

    Mana consumption was always an issue for me in 51 Pyro because I hated using my charge on that mana decrease buff. That is another thing I love about the Archon build - I am never low on mana.
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    31/31dom/4AM

    Hit's acceptably hard, has all the mana choiking skills of Dom, Heatwave, Deny, Split, Flicker etc.

    Watch some of Bleed's videos, it's an outstanding build

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    Want to ask here, since I've asked in a couple of the PyroLock threads... but have people noticed that they are not receiving the damage increases they are expecting?

    Imp Flame Bolt should increase fire damage by 10%. It is actually only increasing it by 6.8%.

    While my original questions involved Imp Warlock Armor (where I noticed with Flaring INT, that Imp WA and Sac Life - Dmg were only increasing dmg by 6.8%) - it appear that Imp FB is only doing 6.8% for Fireballs, with or without the INT buff.
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