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Thread: Controlled Opportunity & Swift Control

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Controlled Opportunity & Swift Control

    I honestly do not think that these Talent's are worth the points spent in them in PVP.

    For 5 points Controlled Opportunity your spell has 100% chance to hit and does an additional 50% damage, but prevents the ability to crit.

    Here are the issues I have with this.

    1. With DR, there is a chance your target is immune, and you just lost a GCD w/ no effect.
    2. The additional 50% damage must be more then you could normally do in the GCD of Transmogrify to justify the cast of Transmogrify.
    3. The 50% damage is somewhat misleading, as you do have a chance normally to crit that could have done that 50% (or more) damage. The higher your crit % and + crit damage, the less useful Controlled opportunity is.
    4. The extra damage only occurs on the first tick of a DOT or Channeled spell.
    5. This ability could cost you damage if you only have a few points in it, and a high crit%.

    Of course, it has some advantages.
    1. If you are going to transmogrify anyway, you will have some increased damage when you do hit the target. IMO, the main time I find this useful is one on one combat. It means more guaranteed initial burst. In open combat, I use Transmogrify strictly as CC.
    2. For a high damage ability, this will guarantee that you will get the most out of it.
    3. Transmogrify will interrupt casting and in effect can take a GCD from your target.

    Bottom line, I think that the time investment is not worth the DPS return outside of a one on one situation.

    For 5 points Swift Control increases your cast time by 50% for 5 seconds.

    My main issue is that I do not think in most cases that this gains you any time.

    As example, use this with Fireball. Using Swift Control you can get off 3 fireballs in 3 GCDs. Add in the time for Transmogrify, and you have cast 3 fireballs in 6 seconds...or 2 seconds a fireball. You start to see a gain on spells that have a cast time of 2.5 seconds or more. The issue is, there are not that many builds that want to cast 3 spells in a row with that casting time.

    The advantage you get with the shorter cast times is less time to be interrupted per spell.

    IMO, these abilities are best used for a Dueling build. For group encounters, I would rather have points in Improved Charged Shield and Durable Control.

    Am I missing uses for these talents that make them more appealing?

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintervoid View Post
    I honestly do not think that these Talent's are worth the points spent in them in PVP.

    For 5 points Controlled Opportunity your spell has 100% chance to hit and does an additional 50% damage, but prevents the ability to crit.

    Here are the issues I have with this.

    1. With DR, there is a chance your target is immune, and you just lost a GCD w/ no effect.
    2. The additional 50% damage must be more then you could normally do in the GCD of Transmogrify to justify the cast of Transmogrify.
    3. The 50% damage is somewhat misleading, as you do have a chance normally to crit that could have done that 50% (or more) damage. The higher your crit % and + crit damage, the less useful Controlled opportunity is.
    4. The extra damage only occurs on the first tick of a DOT or Channeled spell.
    5. This ability could cost you damage if you only have a few points in it, and a high crit%.

    Of course, it has some advantages.
    1. If you are going to transmogrify anyway, you will have some increased damage when you do hit the target. IMO, the main time I find this useful is one on one combat. It means more guaranteed initial burst. In open combat, I use Transmogrify strictly as CC.
    2. For a high damage ability, this will guarantee that you will get the most out of it.
    3. Transmogrify will interrupt casting and in effect can take a GCD from your target.

    Bottom line, I think that the time investment is not worth the DPS return outside of a one on one situation.

    For 5 points Swift Control increases your cast time by 50% for 5 seconds.

    My main issue is that I do not think in most cases that this gains you any time.

    As example, use this with Fireball. Using Swift Control you can get off 3 fireballs in 3 GCDs. Add in the time for Transmogrify, and you have cast 3 fireballs in 6 seconds...or 2 seconds a fireball. You start to see a gain on spells that have a cast time of 2.5 seconds or more. The issue is, there are not that many builds that want to cast 3 spells in a row with that casting time.

    The advantage you get with the shorter cast times is less time to be interrupted per spell.

    IMO, these abilities are best used for a Dueling build. For group encounters, I would rather have points in Improved Charged Shield and Durable Control.

    Am I missing uses for these talents that make them more appealing?
    Nope, you've nailed it. Its a pretty crappy talent since they changed it. Granted, it can still be nasty when linked up with a good pyro, but with so many other viable pvp specs why bother.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Bleeds's Avatar
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    Try it during Heatwave. Also, there's the other dom talent that shaves some time off after your 1st cast, so that ends up being almost instant. In group combat, you should be sheeping and tabbing for your 3 casts. So now you've cc'd one target, and blown up a 2nd. Beats 3 super slow non buffed fireball casts any day.
    Last edited by Bleeds; 08-27-2011 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #4
    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Controlled opportunity is a horrible talent indeed. It's the only talent in the game that does more harm than good, especially if you don't have 5/5.

    Fix it, or at least unlink it from swift control.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintervoid View Post
    I honestly do not think that these Talent's are worth the points spent in them in PVP.

    For 5 points Controlled Opportunity your spell has 100% chance to hit and does an additional 50% damage, but prevents the ability to crit.

    Here are the issues I have with this.

    1. With DR, there is a chance your target is immune, and you just lost a GCD w/ no effect.
    2. The additional 50% damage must be more then you could normally do in the GCD of Transmogrify to justify the cast of Transmogrify.
    3. The 50% damage is somewhat misleading, as you do have a chance normally to crit that could have done that 50% (or more) damage. The higher your crit % and + crit damage, the less useful Controlled opportunity is.
    4. The extra damage only occurs on the first tick of a DOT or Channeled spell.
    5. This ability could cost you damage if you only have a few points in it, and a high crit%.

    Of course, it has some advantages.
    1. If you are going to transmogrify anyway, you will have some increased damage when you do hit the target. IMO, the main time I find this useful is one on one combat. It means more guaranteed initial burst. In open combat, I use Transmogrify strictly as CC.
    2. For a high damage ability, this will guarantee that you will get the most out of it.
    3. Transmogrify will interrupt casting and in effect can take a GCD from your target.

    Bottom line, I think that the time investment is not worth the DPS return outside of a one on one situation.

    For 5 points Swift Control increases your cast time by 50% for 5 seconds.

    My main issue is that I do not think in most cases that this gains you any time.

    As example, use this with Fireball. Using Swift Control you can get off 3 fireballs in 3 GCDs. Add in the time for Transmogrify, and you have cast 3 fireballs in 6 seconds...or 2 seconds a fireball. You start to see a gain on spells that have a cast time of 2.5 seconds or more. The issue is, there are not that many builds that want to cast 3 spells in a row with that casting time.

    The advantage you get with the shorter cast times is less time to be interrupted per spell.

    IMO, these abilities are best used for a Dueling build. For group encounters, I would rather have points in Improved Charged Shield and Durable Control.

    Am I missing uses for these talents that make them more appealing?
    Your understanding of Dom is completely backward. You are sacrificing one crit to gain cast speed after a squirrel with the discussed talent. In 1v1's, pro dom's will take that in a heartbeat! 5/5 Swift Control is the reason Pyrodoms, SC/Doms, and Chlorodoms are so deadly.

    The trick is to intentionally burn the "no crit" in controlled opportunity with dots. Haunting pain does the trick. You don't use that spell for it's dmg anyway, just as a cleanse buffer because it has 10-stacks. And I use HP in every single 1v1 almost near the beginning before I start loading them up with other debuffs using anything + dom.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    Controlled opportunity is a horrible talent indeed. It's the only talent in the game that does more harm than good, especially if you don't have 5/5.

    Fix it, or at least unlink it from swift control.
    Try the 44 point inquisitor /cough damage shield (actually its not even a damage shield.. its a VERY weak pulsing AOE dot that is a joke) and it breaks cc

    Honestly if you think yours is the old talent/ability that does more harm than good.. your mistaken..
    "Power is neccessary because conflict will never dissappear"

  7. #7
    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordOberon View Post
    Try the 44 point inquisitor /cough damage shield (actually its not even a damage shield.. its a VERY weak pulsing AOE dot that is a joke) and it breaks cc

    Honestly if you think yours is the old talent/ability that does more harm than good.. your mistaken..
    Doms have got the same thing with charged shield. It breaks cc half of the time when someone is on you, even if it's a melee.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    Doms have got the same thing with charged shield. It breaks cc half of the time when someone is on you, even if it's a melee.
    Charged shield is not even on my hotbar anymore. Even as chlorodom I don't think the padded heals from it are even worth it to break cc's

    Neither is wasting two points that can keep this from happening if the target is >85% HP

    lol
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  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Try giving your fellow Dom a little credit and maybe help him delve further into his craft. Starting out your post by suggesting his thought process is backward is not helpful. Because he asks for advice doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing. There's more than one way to skin a cat and this is not the 'no brainer' you suggest.

    Before getting to the OP question, I'll suggest that your use of the word 'waste' from your last post is misguided at best, but then again that's only my opinion and leads me to think there's a whole world of dominating out there of which you haven't even scratched the surface. I won't be so bold as to say you're doing anything wrong, but Durable Control does have value. That you can debuff and suck about 40% of ones mana before he even acts is enough to make this skill viable.

    Now to the topic:

    It is a fact that you gain cast speed after casting Transmogrify or Mass Exhaustion, but just how much speed are you gaining and is it really worth spending 10 points to get? I'd really like to hear more input from our brethren as even though I've played Dom since launch, I'm always waiting for that gold nugget to show up. Considering gcd and not having pyro all the way up to Heatwave, the net gain might not be worth it to all of us. And that many of us are critting damn near half the time, getting a guaranteed damage bonus might not even be intriguing. Even tossing Haunting Pain first, now you've got a whopping 3.5 seconds of ludicrous speed. I would say that in most cases I do not find it worth the investment.

    I feel that way probably because directly after casting Transmogrify, I'm not always looking to toss fire around, increased speed or not. First, theres the idea that after the first shot, he's firing back and I'm usually not in a big hurry to see that. Then there's the fact that, while I love wielding flames, I have other skills that are far more devestating; many of them don't break Transmogrify either.

    But there are times when I feel like I'd spend 20 points to get at it and thus I do believe it has situational value. It's just a matter of whether it's worth spending for the few times it appears gamebreaking. Maybe my talents on the field are misplaced, but I don't always immediately look to go into a dps frenzy in group situations. One cannot just assume everyone is perpetually immune to cc. Actually, if you show up first you can guarantee the opposite. But appearing in front of a mob makes you very vulnerable and it is here that time if of utmost importance. Without Swift Control, Storm Shackle and Mass Exhaustion seem to take a lifetime and often will not land if not done quickly. In Black Garden, I like to get in quick, cast Transmogrify on one, a quick Mass Exhaustion on the spot the healers sit, Storm Shackle the group around the fang, Flicker out and rejoin my team at the backrow. This just aint happening without some swiftness. Also it does take a whole lot of cast time off Cinderburst, though I find that others often make this one instant anyway due to interruption/double tap proc. People don't like being hit with this and will often do what they can to interrupt---sweet! This is of course not an equal substitute as you've used time in casting it and you're going to get hit.

    Long long story short: Yes and no. I don't really think it's worth all the points but it can be really great. I just wished they would change it so it's not all or none.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    When I use a spec with Controlled Opportunity/Swift Control, I often (nothing absolute to say always) go with something like this: Transmogrify, Void Shroud, Traiterous Influence, and there's still time to start a Cinderburst before swiftness elapses. You do get full boost here as long as you've begun the cast before it wears off. Timing is very important here as you don't want to be too fast as to break you're own cc, but land Storm Shackle immediately after Cinderburst hits the target. There are a few reasons I do in this fashion and I'd suggest making sure this is best for your spec before you put it in your bag.

    I find my instant debuffs most valuable and they don't break Transmogrify, leaving me free from taking damage yet. My fire spells don't exaclty hit like a truck like maybe some of you out there. I like to space my controls as much as I can so when he comes at me, and he will, he's not completely immune to everything immediately BY MY OWN DOING. I've already made him pretty close to immune already but I do have one in the stun/mez category left and the timers are spaced out a bit so I get my category 1 DR to elapse about 5 seconds before he's again sucsebtible to category 2. It's really hard to do with all the people on the field, but it is possible to have someone controlled in some form for the duration of a fight. And no I'm not that good but I try my best and I've been shocked at how long I can maintain distance.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I'm opening up to be sure, but it really helped me a lot in seperating cc's and dr's by putting them into 1's and 2's and I sang a little tune as I played. Maybe it's more like dance steps I dunno. I was glad I was alone and nobody heard it but I learned real fast. I don't even remember the tune but I certainly remember why I did it. 'Here comes a 1.....now take that 2 sucka.....wait, wait, you need a little 1.....not yet not yet...taste 2'

    Burning bonds is often the best lead for category 2 in a longer engagement because it is a single cc. It gets real tricky when using double cc's like Storm Shackle and the ever complicated crossover double cc Death's Edict.
    Last edited by Rizipt; 09-04-2011 at 02:28 AM.

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