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Thread: Is it about the Range?

  1. #1
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    Default Is it about the Range?

    I'll just start off by saying I don't consider myself a great PvPer. I go after marked targets. I pick someone who seems competent and target their targets. But by and large I'm still learning to read the confusion that is PvP, and sometimes get flustered when trying to figure out what to hit next. I only just hit r4 this morning.

    A lot of people have been complaining about Mage damage output, lack of hard defense, and difficulty kiting. The thing I'm running up against, though, while playing endless WFs to complete Trion's beloved prestige grind, is positioning because of range.

    Theoretically, the squishies are supposed to stay on the back line, right? We're not supposed to let attackers close distance with us.

    That's great, except as DPS, we're supposed to be targetting the other guys' back line, because, as everyone likes to repeat, you need to kill the healers, or you can't kill the people they are healing. So where does that put us?

    The healing clerics can stay back far enough to keep their front line on the edges of their healing range. That means to engage them, we have to stand on top of their melees, who quickly destroy us. Rogues have a little bit of extra range, so they can try to stay away from melees yet keep the healers in their sites.

    Is the difficulty of playing a mage as simple as "kite the melees" and "focus the healers" are mutually exclusive mandates?

    Or, it occurs to me, is this just a matter of needing to use flanking more often? Not terribly useful if the mage is the only one running around the outside, because you end up an obvious target out all alone?
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Zilvereen's Avatar
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    dont go for the clerics , clerics are die-hard. Better go for warriors/rogues. All you need is another warrior to apply 50% heal debuff on your targets.

    Sucks to have our 50% heal debuff deep in a healing soul and deep in a cc/debuffer soul. If you ever go for a cleric you better be a dominator a go for his mana bar.
    Last edited by Zilvereen; 08-22-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilvereen View Post
    dont go for the clerics , clerics are die-hard. Better go for warriors/rogues. All you need is another warrior to apply 50% heal debuff on your targets.

    Sucks to have our 50% heal debuff deep in a healing soul and deep in a cc/debuffer soul. If you ever go for a cleric you better be a dominator a go for his mana bar.
    Thanks for the pleasant reply. I was bracing for a bunch of L2P backlash.

    I've been using Blight lately, and it's pretty sweet for helping a geared warrior take down a target that is receiving healing. Those warriors are usually headed for the healers to take them out as a first priority. If I stick close enough to debuff the healer, I'm standing on top of the other team's front line. So I get to Blight the healer, help the warrior take him out, then do a run back from the spawn point.

    If I hang back with my healers, I'm hitting warriors who aren't being focused, and my attacks are usually bouncing right off of them.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  4. #4
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    The positioning you are describing is in my opinion, a strategical flaw which is most prominent in Escalation: Whitefall during the initial clash at mid.

    Due to the disadvantages of the positioning described; it is in my experience, best for the entire team to close in on the enemy team. This holds true for nearly any team clash at an objective point. You must get inside the enemy team's formation for the best chance at taking out key players.


    As I have told many friends and guildmates in the past: Having superior range is often best used to widen the danger zone for the enemy. This is to say that a fighting an enemy with a max range of 30m from a 10m distance means there is a 20m danger zone. If youlose your advantage dfor any reason and must retreat, you will have a minimum of 20m that your enemy can continue damafe without chase before you are safe.


    Good teams will use this aggresive positioning to force the enemy out of the objective zone. Unfortunately most pugs do not recognize this which puts those at the frontline in greater danger as well as those in the back; since your frontline is easier to bypass the less players that are covering it.
    Last edited by Ozamet; 08-22-2011 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Benlisted's Avatar
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    I'd pretty much entirely agree with Ozamet on the flaw of positioning via range being most obvious in whitefall escalation. Here are the most drawn out battle lines in any warfront, and when the front shifts even slightly less mobile mages are caught out on their *****. As a Chloro in particular you notice this as you both have to be in range to damage some of the enemy (ideally close to a melee or few hitting someone else to Corrosion them, and in range of some opposing healers to focus down and hit with Blight) and out of harm's way.

    Without a coordinated group this results so often in the melee retreating when they come under heavy fire and leaving me, closer to their lines than most so I can be sure of damaging something, exposed and focused. Without Essence Surge and Shadow Life up I'm generally not gonna survive more than maybe two people's attention long enough to escape, so many deaths result. Chloro especially is hard in escalation, my advice is to go necrolock and run around dotting people until you get the hand of it.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    This is why I suggested that mages should have a 40 or 50 meter cast range. I felt people would say this is stupid so I suggested it to be an archmage talent with some drawbacks, but it still got trolled.
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
    Everything you need to know for Mage: www.valvalval.net

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    As a mage in rift you are given many ways to approach each battle depending on your spec. I will go through some of my tactics as a Chloro Lock myself.

    In rift you will find almost always there is an order of operations that goes on, or a circle of life. There is a huge misconception in strategy in Rift. People automatically assume that everyone should target the healers and take them out. When you come across a quality high rank clerics, it is often times a waste of time as I would like to say to take them out.

    I run a pretty tight premade group myself but I will explain our strategy and how I believe a full 10 man should take out any opponent.

    Rogues: target the clerics, strip them, rip them, give em all you got.
    Clerics: focus on kiting around melee's and keeping up your team, with high emphasis heals on top players.
    Warriors: pressure the other team, stay spread out to get fears off then converge on mages and rogues

    Mages: (reason i posted) My friends, some of you say you need to get into the thick of things, some of you say you need to stick in the back. If you normally run in a group you will want to have your Warrior on Main Assist. You should NOT always be assisting the warrior. Your job as a mage is to peel off the clerics with your range while staying on the SIDE of the fight. At the same time you are DPSing the warriors and rogues killing your support, MAKE SURE to be constantly swapping fear and silences on clerics and healing mages.

    This is where positioning is vital. You need to be in a position where you do not have to run 15 yards to get to the target you need to be acting on. Being on the side of the fight enables you to stay in a constant good position without finding a full train of bad guys. If you do happen to find a train, turn and run before they get to you. Call out big heals in Ventrilo before you are being hit to give clerics time to get hots up and spam dispel on yourself.

    Mages bring the main source of damage in Rift now with this recent patch. I do not recommend playing a full heal spec as a mage. Unfortunately without a good rogue on your team or other mage, if you land a tank train on you there is no surviving chance without 32 lock.

    My recommended specs for warfronts.
    -Solo: 32 lock 19 chloro 15 archmage
    -Solo with lack of clerics: 38 lock 28 chloro 0 archmage
    -Group: 51 lock 15 archmage
    -Group: 32 lock 19 chloro 15 archmage

    I really recommend the offensive chloro lock spec. I dish out damage no one can come close to, while getting top heals often if I don't have a phenomenal cleric in the game. Sure I stand no chance beating a great cleric but the heals are enough to keep yourself up through any train that hits you.

    Make sure to master devouring shadows. If you watch some of my videos you will see how to properly use it while running and to apply finishingblows/quick burst dps. Watch how I flip flop rotations and how I use my spells to maximise burst.

    People think that assisting is the best way to kill a team, which is true, but you dont want 10 people all attacking the same people. Every class has their role, and each is different.

    If you're with your pre-made make sure to have your main assist calling targets and call for quick burst when they drop a target to 35%. Throw a draining bolt and quick devouring to finish him off.

    Also don't be a kill *****. If your main assist is taking massive damage and you see a target he is finishing, let him get the kill so he can proc Bloodthirsty. I always see people die to such greediness it's disappointing.

    Call out your CC's. Let your team know who you are CCing so that you don't put people on DR.

    Know the DR system. (if you cast your 2nd cc the last second of the timer, you can recast it again for full duration when its over)

    RECAP as a Mage:
    -Stay on the side of fights, don't be a superhero thinking you can tank the entire team
    (know that people will see mages and think you're fresh meat)
    -Pre-kite
    -interrupt healers/fear while bursting Warriors/rogues on Support
    -Control the fight
    -Call out your dps
    -Call our your CCing so you do not overlap with warriors and rogues
    -Dont Killwhore
    -Know your class
    -Know the system
    -Win

    Power out.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for a lot of helpful responses.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

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