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Thread: Dominator or DRs need to be redesigned

  1. #1
    Plane Walker GLopez's Avatar
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    Default Dominator or DRs need to be redesigned

    It is a control-based soul that was designed around the original rules for control effects. That is like designing a building and then taking away its foundation; it is obviously going to be at risk for collapse.

    Its damage and harrassing abilities are certainly good, but there are a few problems with the control-based abilities:

    First, the abilities, which were obviously designed to be chained in some way with Quick Thinking and Swift Control, can't be chained because they DR each other.

    Second, some abilities can't be used at all in PVP because they'll cause really bad diminishing returns that weren't worth the limited CC duration. This can lead to some dominators actually hurting their teammates by simply using abilities given by the spec.

    Last, from a design standpoint, it seems silly that the control-based spec is used more to drain energy and mana bars than it is to actually control.

    The tree still has enough utility to be a useful sub-spec, but it seems very strange to me that the entire foundation of the spec control was hugely nerfed without any huge compensation to the soul as a whole. I think this warrants at least a look into the soul.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Elerina's Avatar
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    I'm having a blast with my 51 Dom spec in a proper group. Lots of impact on the outcome of matches.

    Dominators are fine.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    Dominator's in a good spot right now. Leave it alone.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elerina View Post
    I'm having a blast with my 51 Dom spec in a proper group. Lots of impact on the outcome of matches.

    Dominators are fine.
    I agree mostly.

    Current dimishing returns, however is NOT fine.


    You want to talk about a soul that gets shafted up the butt on DR? Make a thread about SC.

  5. #5
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    CC is 100% broken in Rift. As a mage you cant stop a melee from getting in your face. Kiting is impossible. Although Dom is viable, its not so in the way its meant to be. You cant control or CC anyone in a warfront, all we see is IMMUNE. Doms can drain, which since the 1.4 patch, we can really only drain mana down since it doesnt regen super fast. Tried draining a warrior or rog since then? The moment you stop draining there power/energy shoots right up. Priest Lament sounds like an awsome spell on paper.....but never works b/c of DR. Dom is still the best 1v1 pvp spec, since it does have a couple useful tools. CC is so broken that the other mage specs (SC was mentioned) just get steamrolled by melee. You cannot avoid fighting a melee fight in Rift, warriors/rogs will always be in your face, unless they dont want to be, and even then warriors instant ranged attacks do more dmg than ours =/
    I read in a diff post on the forums, and i think its a great idea. Give mages a melee spec. Templar maybe? doesnt matter, but give us some kind of counter to having no choice but to fight face to face. PBAoE? Something. Anything. Give us something that will make melee pay for charging the first blue bar they see!

  6. #6
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superchloro View Post
    CC is 100% broken in Rift. As a mage you cant stop a melee from getting in your face. Kiting is impossible. Although Dom is viable, its not so in the way its meant to be. You cant control or CC anyone in a warfront, all we see is IMMUNE. Doms can drain, which since the 1.4 patch, we can really only drain mana down since it doesnt regen super fast. Tried draining a warrior or rog since then? The moment you stop draining there power/energy shoots right up. Priest Lament sounds like an awsome spell on paper.....but never works b/c of DR. Dom is still the best 1v1 pvp spec, since it does have a couple useful tools. CC is so broken that the other mage specs (SC was mentioned) just get steamrolled by melee. You cannot avoid fighting a melee fight in Rift, warriors/rogs will always be in your face, unless they dont want to be, and even then warriors instant ranged attacks do more dmg than ours =/
    I read in a diff post on the forums, and i think its a great idea. Give mages a melee spec. Templar maybe? doesnt matter, but give us some kind of counter to having no choice but to fight face to face. PBAoE? Something. Anything. Give us something that will make melee pay for charging the first blue bar they see!
    This is the #1 reason why so many mages are forced to play stupid Chlorolock/survivability builds. You are forced to make yourself into a tank, even as a caster, because you will always be engaged in close quarters fighting due to broken DR on CC abilities. Every pvp mage philosophy seems to just be, "my overall dps done in any WF will be higher because I'm not dead!" and for the most part it's true.

    The problem is, I don't really know how to fix it.

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  7. #7
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    DR is a kind of automatic anti-cc system, and is today way too effective. It has a too strong impact on dominators and stormcallers.

    I would prefer a solution where:
    - all single target dispels are instant, with no or a short CD
    - AOE dispels are on a short cast time, with a short CD
    - DR are made much less effective

    This would obliged healer classes to balance their spells between heals and dispels, and would have the advantage to:
    - give skilled players a greater chance to express their skills
    - give stormcallers back the defensive abilities they lost because of DR
    - give dominators back the CC role they lost because of DR

  8. #8
    Plane Walker GLopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superchloro View Post
    CC is 100% broken in Rift. As a mage you cant stop a melee from getting in your face. Kiting is impossible. Although Dom is viable, its not so in the way its meant to be. You cant control or CC anyone in a warfront, all we see is IMMUNE. Doms can drain, which since the 1.4 patch, we can really only drain mana down since it doesnt regen super fast. Tried draining a warrior or rog since then? The moment you stop draining there power/energy shoots right up. Priest Lament sounds like an awsome spell on paper.....but never works b/c of DR. Dom is still the best 1v1 pvp spec, since it does have a couple useful tools. CC is so broken that the other mage specs (SC was mentioned) just get steamrolled by melee. You cannot avoid fighting a melee fight in Rift, warriors/rogs will always be in your face, unless they dont want to be, and even then warriors instant ranged attacks do more dmg than ours =/
    I read in a diff post on the forums, and i think its a great idea. Give mages a melee spec. Templar maybe? doesnt matter, but give us some kind of counter to having no choice but to fight face to face. PBAoE? Something. Anything. Give us something that will make melee pay for charging the first blue bar they see!
    This is exactly what I was getting at. Classes and specs were balanced for an old set of rules that don't exist anymore. That's a problem.

  9. #9
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Dominator's in a good spot right now. Leave it alone.
    The nerf to Transference was completely unjustified, it was one of the only tools we had to stop a Warrior from smashing our face instantly besides stacking 8000+ hp.

    Mass Betrayal is not nearly as effective as it used to be as an anti-****** healbot stopper. it's a 51 point ability on a 2m cooldown, and it should be devastating, as it used to be. Now it's just annoying.

    The only justified nerf was to Split, which was way out of line.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Dominator's in a good spot right now. Leave it alone.
    While I don't disagree with the fact that Dominator is in a relatively comfortable position right now (playable, but not overpowered) it's for entirely the wrong reasons.

    We have a couple of skills that still work quite well. (Mass Betrayal, Traitorous Influence, Storm Shackle, Transference, Split Personality, Mana Wrench)

    Then we have this big pile of crap that almost never work. (Death's Edict, Disorient, Mass Exhaustion, Arresting Presence, Priest's Lament and Transmogrify)

    Transmogrify and Arresting Presence may still seem like major players because of the amount of targets we still get a chance to try them on. (Insta, no CD, etc.) but I'd still say 4 times out of 5 the target is completely immune.

    I understand that it's important for a powerful CC class not to become TOO powerful. But when you invest a GCD and as much as a 2 second stationary spellcast into a spell... you don't want to count on a roll of the dice as to whether or not that target is immune because he got micro-stunned by a Pyro 3 hours ago.

    Not to mention we have a skill (Haunting Pain) that has never ever ever been worth casting under any circumstance do to apparently having practically no spell power multiplier.
    Last edited by TehTpyoKing; 08-21-2011 at 11:56 PM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehTpyoKing View Post
    While I don't disagree with the fact that Dominator is in a relatively comfortable position right now (playable, but not overpowered) it's for entirely the wrong reasons.

    We have a couple of skills that still work quite well. (Mass Betrayal, Traitorous Influence, Storm Shackle, Transference, Split Personality, Mana Wrench)

    Then we have this big pile of crap that almost never work. (Death's Edict, Disorient, Mass Exhaustion, Arresting Presence, Priest's Lament and Transmogrify)

    Transmogrify and Arresting Presence may still seem like major players because of the amount of targets we still get a chance to try them on. (Insta, no CD, etc.) but I'd still say 4 times out of 5 the target is completely immune.

    I understand that it's important for a powerful CC class not to become TOO powerful. But when you invest a GCD and as much as a 2 second stationary spellcast into a spell... you don't want to count on a roll of the dice as to whether or not that target is immune because he got micro-stunned by a Pyro 3 hours ago.

    Not to mention we have a skill (Haunting Pain) that has never ever ever been worth casting under any circumstance do to apparently having practically no spell power multiplier.
    Priest's Lament is the best example of "WTF were they thinking" Game mechanics. It applies 5 charges, to which the target becomes immune after it procs twice...

    Mass Exhaustion is completely useless, it needs to be instant cast for it to be worth anything. Neural prod makes no sense whatsoever when I look at instant cast spells from other class likes Cloudburst doing at least reasonable damage.

    Mental Shock, Deaths Edict, Thunderblast, and Dark Fury to a lesser extent even though it's in a different tree, are all much weaker than they should be because they don't apply the damage portion if the target is immune to the CC effect. Really dumb, IMO
    Last edited by lol r u mad; 08-22-2011 at 12:05 AM.

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  12. #12
    Plane Walker GLopez's Avatar
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    The worst part about Death's Edict is it applies two DRs. I mean, it just can't get dumber than that. It's so, so obvious, if you just look at all the abilities together, that the class was meant for a different model. What makes it work now is the wrong reason for something like Dominator to work.

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    And all of the above is probably the main reason why this game is not ready for an arena feature. Whether you like arena or not is irrelivent; until DR has some actual thought put into it, the feature simply won't function.

    This isn't a thread about arena but I thought it was a good point in the conversation to mention that flaw briefly.



    DR shouldnt include or apply to anything that doesn't completely disable a target.
    • Stun
    • Silence
    • Disarm
    • Fear
    • Transmogrify

    These should be the only effects that suffer DR and should not share a DR with
    each other.

    Any similar effects that don't break on damage but completely disable should sshare DR with stun. The Warrior AoE fear for ezample should count as a stun and not a Fear.
    Last edited by Ozamet; 08-22-2011 at 06:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozamet View Post
    And all of the above is probably the main reason why this game is not ready for an arena feature. Whether you like arena or not is irrelivent; until DR has some actual thought put into it, the feature simply won't function.

    This isn't a thread about arena but I thought it was a good point in the conversation to mention that flaw briefly.



    DR shouldnt include or apply to anything that doesn't completely disable a target.
    • Stun
    • Silence
    • Disarm
    • Fear
    • Transmogrify

    These should be the only effects that suffer DR and should not share a DR with
    each other.

    Any similar effects that don't break on damage but completely disable should sshare DR with stun. The Warrior AoE fear for ezample should count as a stun and not a Fear.
    I'd go a little farther. Anything that last less than 3 seconds shouldn't have a DR either.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Inixia's Avatar
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    Would love to see dr redesign or class design for both dominator and stormcaller- both classes have most of their defensive tactics revolve around high varieties of cc, and in the case of stormcaller all of which is now in the same dr group.

    The main issue I see with cc atm is the current dr groupings, I know a lot of ppl hated to see the change at the time it was made (and still do) most of the issue with cc at the time was not abuses of high varieties of cc but from t1 dps classes that were able to put in massive burst dmg into short stunlocks, and the dr groupings didnt' really punish them. A problem is that now after time has elapsed, both dominator and stormcaller have gotten some other moves that have made them more pvp viable even without the cc parts of their tree, dominator for example, is now more of a pvp dps class than it is utility or pvp support which were its original designs. Anyways, I would still LOVE to see a cc redesign, as I'm a huge fan of cc based classes and would love to see that again in mage tree, but even with a dr grouping design there might need to be a few more tweaks to balance it out. However, I think its important to both dominator and stormcaller that they are able to have viable defensive options again, so we don't have to all play battle healers in warfronts which gets old quick.
    Last edited by Inixia; 08-22-2011 at 10:13 AM.

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