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Thread: Mage PvE BiS - Now with HK

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Mage PvE BiS - Now with HK

    First off I'll apologize for creating separate threads on this topic. I don't know how to replace the contents in a google doc with an excel doc without recreating it. That changes the link. Since I can't edit my posts it means I need a new thread to ensure people hit the right link. If someone has a suggestion for a better way to update this let me know.

    Thanks to both Xanadu's website and me just inspecting the Hammerknell vendors in game I now have much of the discovered HK gear in the latest spreadsheet. At someone's suggestion I turned the default SC weight down to 3 from 4. As before, save your own local copy of the spreadsheet to play with the item weights.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

    BTW Trinkets are hard to score so I didn't bother. I typically run with the PvP trinket for general DPS, Lost Favor for necrolock, SHOE for AoE healing or Wolf for tank healing.

    Let me know of any errors or omissions. I, of course, would appreciate feedback if you find this useful, too.

    Thanks

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    You should make the Darkling Skull proc worth 200 SP (since it is, for a raid environment)

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    It looks like you took into account the value of the PvP Synergy Crystal when ranking PvP R8 items, spreading their value over the 4 armor pieces.

    I don't know how to value HK Synergy Crystals in the same way since they are so varied. You might want to take out the weight of the PvP Synergy Crystal (from the PvP armor pieces) and rate the crystal on its own. Otherwise players might get the impression that the R8 items are better than they are (because the HK relic and non-relic pieces don't have their Synergy Crystal bonuses like the R8 items do).

    Granted, nobody would use the R8 armor without the Synergy Crystal, but they wouldn't use the HK relic/non-relic pieces without their Synergy Crystal either.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeberon View Post
    It looks like you took into account the value of the PvP Synergy Crystal when ranking PvP R8 items, spreading their value over the 4 armor pieces.
    .
    That is correct, I did. From my previous thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Piece of Shoe View Post
    Some things to note:
    I have included ideal PvP gear synergy setup (preserve focus of head and gloves so use shoulder, chest, legs feet).
    PvP Synergy values included four item bonus (endurance and spell power). The bonus is split evenly across all items.
    I have included the two new T1 rings only with set bonus (without set bonus they aren't that good). The set bonus is split evenly across all items.
    I have included the new xIT healing wand with max stack proc of 45sp. This is easy to maintain in raid/AoE healing situations.

    Thanks
    For most of us the PvP gear, especially R6, will likely be achieved for sooner than enough HK plaque gear to get synergy bonuses. The role synergy crystals are so varied I didn't know how to include them here. Unfortunately I don't think i can capture everything in a simple spreadsheet.

    I will try to add the darkling proc somehow to the table, though. The uptime is fantastic. I'm not sure 200sp is fair because you may have melee in your party. Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piece of Shoe View Post
    That is correct, I did. From my previous thread:



    For most of us the PvP gear, especially R6, will likely be achieved for sooner than enough HK plaque gear to get synergy bonuses. The role synergy crystals are so varied I didn't know how to include them here. Unfortunately I don't think i can capture everything in a simple spreadsheet.

    I will try to add the darkling proc somehow to the table, though. The uptime is fantastic. I'm not sure 200sp is fair because you may have melee in your party. Thoughts?
    SP = AP, same deal really, 200 SP best (easiest) way to calculate it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    SP = AP, same deal really, 200 SP best (easiest) way to calculate it
    Nope 1SP = 2AP see tooltip

  7. #7
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    You guys are talking synergy crystal 'leet speek...would you mind breaking it down for us dumb-arses please? I'm being sarcastic, kinda...clueless, ya mostly

    #1 question: is the PvP gear really BiS in all the places you've got listed?
    or, to put it another way: Do I have to get R8 in PvP to get all BiS?



    ...if so, I'm out...
    Last edited by garraeth; 08-17-2011 at 11:33 PM.
    Level 50 Mage (Archon):Garraeth, of <Decayed> - 10/11 HK.

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    Shadowlander Oeberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garraeth View Post
    You guys are talking synergy crystal 'leet speek...would you mind breaking it down for us dumb-arses please? I'm being sarcastic, kinda...clueless, ya mostly

    #1 question: is the PvP gear really BiS in all the places you've got listed?
    or, to put it another way: Do I have to get R8 in PvP to get all BiS?

    ...if so, I'm out...
    Rank 8 is really good but it is not Best In Slot all the way up as the spreadsheet indicates. This is because the Rank 8 gear has the benefit of the +200 spellpower PvP synergy crystal built in, but the Hammerknell gear does not.

    The Archon PvE Synergy Crystal, for example, also has +200 spellpower. If the Hammerknell pieces had that built in like the Rank 8 gear does on the spreadsheet, they would blow the Rank 8 gear out of the water. The problem is that there are a lot of PvE Synergy Crystals that provide different bonuses, so it's hard for a spreadsheet to give value to them.

    Unfortunately in its current form the spreadsheet makes it look like Rank 8 is Best In Slot when it is not. I don't blame the OP for that - it's difficult to assess each PvE Synergy Crystal in a spreadsheet format because of the varied bonuses, whereas the PvP Synergy Crystals are straight numbers. It is up to each player to determine the value of his Hammerknell PvE Synergy Crystal and apply weight to it. This will make Hammerknell gear Best In Slot for Archons without any doubt whatsoever, as an example.

    Just because players don't currently have 4 piece Hammerknell gear doesn't mean that gear is not Best In Slot - it just means players don't have it yet, and the value of the appropriate Hammerknell Synergy Crystal has to be taken into account to make that determination.
    Last edited by Oeberon; 08-18-2011 at 06:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeberon View Post
    Rank 8 is really good but it is not Best In Slot all the way up as the spreadsheet indicates. This is because the Rank 8 gear has the benefit of the +200 spellpower PvP synergy crystal built in, but the Hammerknell gear does not.

    The Archon PvE Synergy Crystal, for example, also has +200 spellpower. If the Hammerknell pieces had that built in like the Rank 8 gear does on the spreadsheet, they would blow the Rank 8 gear out of the water. The problem is that there are a lot of PvE Synergy Crystals that provide different bonuses, so it's hard for a spreadsheet to give value to them.

    Unfortunately in its current form the spreadsheet makes it look like Rank 8 is Best In Slot when it is not. I don't blame the OP for that - it's difficult to assess each PvE Synergy Crystal in a spreadsheet format because of the varied bonuses, whereas the PvP Synergy Crystals are straight numbers. It is up to each player to determine the value of his Hammerknell PvE Synergy Crystal and apply weight to it. This will make Hammerknell gear Best In Slot for Archons without any doubt whatsoever, as an example.

    Just because players don't currently have 4 piece Hammerknell gear doesn't mean that gear is not Best In Slot - it just means players don't have it yet, and the value of the appropriateh Hammerknell Synergy Crystal has to be taken into account to make that determination.
    Is there a list anywhere of the PVE synergy crystals I can't seem to find one?

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    Shadowlander Oeberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTrickle View Post
    Is there a list anywhere of the PVE synergy crystals I can't seem to find one?
    You can check them out in-game near the entrance to Hammerknell.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeberon View Post
    You can check them out in-game near the entrance to Hammerknell.
    I won't quote your big message, but thanks for it. Explains a lot.
    Level 50 Mage (Archon):Garraeth, of <Decayed> - 10/11 HK.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeberon View Post
    Rank 8 is really good but it is not Best In Slot all the way up as the spreadsheet indicates. This is because the Rank 8 gear has the benefit of the +200 spellpower PvP synergy crystal built in, but the Hammerknell gear does not.
    HK relic armor with synergy is probably best in slot. I made this spreadsheet as a guide for myself, though, so it emphasizes my plans to some extent. The R6 and R8 gear are far more acquirable for me than HK gear. My guild has only a few Hammerknell boss kills so I'm a long way from a full R2 raid set and synergy crystal let alone the relic armor. On the other hand I could be fully R8 geared by end of next month.

    I will try to figure out how to get HK synergy gear in here over the next few weeks. If you have suggestions on how best to do that let me know.

    I also really need to get the Torment set bonuses in here. The crafted gear is BiS solo pre HK for three spots. With the three item bonus its a grandslam.

  13. #13
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    The R8 crystal is still, imo, going to be better for most DPS mages than the PvE crystals even with HK gear (maybe not with relic gear).

    The R8 crystal does not require a specific spec, while the PvE crystals do. That in itself is a huge disadvantage for the PvE crystals. Unless you're always Chloro or always Archon, you'll be changing DPS specs depending on the fight. This means acquiring 3 PvE crystals or the more obvious solution of just taking the static 200 spell power.

    GSB: 5/5, RoS: 4/4, HK: 10/11
    GP: 4/4, DH: 4/4

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekso View Post
    Nope 1SP = 2AP see tooltip
    No, I think you're confused

  15. #15
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    SP/SC wins all arguments

    The more you have the higher you parse Damage or Heals.

    R8 Crystal + 4 piece bonus is much higher SP SC and hit points (ALSO IMPORTANT)

    You still need some HK drops to maintain hit/focus and you may need to add 1 more for hit/focus debuffs later in progression, but that still won't change the fact that BiS for raiding is mostly Solo farmed.



    NO REASON TO RAID IF PvP GEAR IS BETTER AND CAN RAMBO FOR IT

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