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Thread: Archon

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Archon

    I was going through the Archon tree and couldnt help thinking how great it would be as an Offensive role. Hitting things with Lava and Rock is a neat concept but that role is primarily just for raiding. I think it would serve a better purpose if it were changed to a damaging role for 5 mand and PVP. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    then we would need another soul for doing exactly what archon is doing now, so why bother?
    btw you didnt say anything about what you would change or why you require these changes, only some silly rp stuff...
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  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Remove the debuffs the archon gets to increase damage as well as just increase the base damage of spells, nerf the buffs the archon gives or remove the buff mechanic talents and put in ones that increase the archons abilities to do damage. It is a very interesting role but unless your a raider you arent going to use it. Mages have a healing and another support role which they can take on raids. Maybe I am wrong but dont Rogues only have 1 support role?
    Last edited by Sygon; 08-12-2011 at 08:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygon View Post
    Remove the debuffs the archon gets to increase damage as well as just increase the base damage of spells, nerf the buffs the archon gives or remove the buff mechanic talents and put in ones that increase the archons abilities to do damage. It is a very interesting role but unless your a raider you arent going to use it. Mages have a healing and another support role which they can take on raids. Maybe I am wrong but dont Rogues only have 1 support role?
    No, archons are fine and actually are useful in PvP (mainly in a premade situation though).

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I'm thinking anyone who says Archon are fine doesn't actually have to play an Archon in raids. They are mind numbingly boring and un-fun to play.

    Yes they are a must have for raids, the buffs to the raid are great, but the game play of them sucks.

    I would like to see them get nudged up a bit dps-wise, raids would still only take one as the buffs wouldn't stack but would make it at least interesting to have some control over that part.

    Add more AoE capability (debuffs/dmg). Give more instant cast spells so at least the class is mobile.

    something. I detest Archon.

    Just because a class is needed for raiding doesn't mean it should be boring and tedious to play.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    I actually enjoy Archon in solo play. Just NEVER as the primary soul to dump all into.

    In fact, as a pyro (love my fire, sorry but I can't leave this soul), its very useful for me to kill elites and more powerful quest mobs, where otherwise I'd be knocked down before I kill it.

    Support souls shouldn't be a primary soul (in PvE) unless you're in a support role in a group. I don't mind this - I can use Archon when I need to. Not flashy, but weakens an enemy (and bolsters me) just enough for me to take it down solo.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyvus View Post
    I'm thinking anyone who says Archon are fine doesn't actually have to play an Archon in raids. They are mind numbingly boring and un-fun to play.

    Yes they are a must have for raids, the buffs to the raid are great, but the game play of them sucks.

    I would like to see them get nudged up a bit dps-wise, raids would still only take one as the buffs wouldn't stack but would make it at least interesting to have some control over that part.

    Add more AoE capability (debuffs/dmg). Give more instant cast spells so at least the class is mobile.

    something. I detest Archon.

    Just because a class is needed for raiding doesn't mean it should be boring and tedious to play.
    Yeah I wouldn't know, I just use it sometimes (as a secondary with Pyro, or tertiary with Pyro and Ele) when questing, and only primary when in an important group quest, raid group in open world, or a dungeon. It's not bad in a dungeon imo, but I wouldn't mind more spells that fit outside of its current form.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Pendu's Avatar
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    51 Archon is kickass. to execute properly it's not as easy as just spamming 1 button, namely because of Power Drain. If you want to maximize DPS whilst Power Draining the majority of a target's abilities, it takes effort, timing and knowledge of the encounters

    I just wish the 5 Aura's where actual aura's without a duration, just a toggle, not possible to dispel. You nerf yourself hard enough by having them up.

    With the negative hitpoint modifier from Burning Bright removed in the Pyro-tree I'd really like to see at least a way for an Archon to crank up his health in some way..

    My suggestion is to remove the internal cooldown on Burning Purpose and add a 1.5 second cooldown on Power Drain to open up a 15 Warlock offsoul.. Maybe have all of the Archon's spells apply BP to crank up the dps a little bit and change some of the talents that are completely useless.. like -50% archon aura cost.. 3 points for Mental Flare, Altruist..

    Archon is good as it is, but it could use some tweaks and love. Not to be competitive dps, but slightly more rewarding and some way to complicate the rotation a little and rewarding it would make it perfect
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  9. #9
    Plane Walker Pendu's Avatar
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    It'd also be nice to have a viable AoE.. like a new spell like an aoe version of Rock Slide for example
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  10. #10
    Telaran
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    As was probably clear by my previous post I don't like playing Archon when raiding, but I end up doing it a fair amount because of a raid needs.

    I also disagree with the person that thought it was a challenge to play. Knowing when to use your charge dumps isn't a a challenge (for most fights it is simply a case of use it when you get to 80+ charge. )

    Granted there are a couple fights where using burning purpose is kind of fun. Hylas fight for instance to lower the dmg of soul fracture. But mostly , meh.

    Given the choice I don't know anyone I raid with that would choose to play Archon. We more or less draw straws or rotate it around, or stick the new person we out gear on Archon duty.

    I actually preferred playing bard (raiding) to Archon (when i raided with my rogue).

    I think a lot of my issues stem from requiring a 51 point build for raiding, if we at least had more points to play around with could make things more interesting.

    So in summary for me to not detest the class I would like.

    1) more insta cast spells
    2) AoE debuffs and or dmg spells.
    3) tweak up for dps
    4) Get rid of some of the aura penalties (would would probably help 3).

    None of these would be over powering or change raid makeup.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    Default yea

    I have always liked the idea of archon. I liked playing it innitialy but its true that GSB and ROS can be incredibly boring as an archon. Thankfully, HK changed that a little bit and I find myself doing other things besides just spamming my macro. purges, dispells, and the ever important LD.

    that aside, I am in agreement that it needs an overhaul. a decent aoe spell would be awsome. and uping our dps a little bit would be nice as well. honestly I just hate how squishy I am a change there would be something.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyvus View Post
    I also disagree with the person that thought it was a challenge to play. Knowing when to use your charge dumps isn't a a challenge (for most fights it is simply a case of use it when you get to 80+ charge. )
    and this is why he said that being a good archon is harder than it looks: archon's charge dump is an incoming damage debuff, its pretty crucial to use it when some huge damage is coming the raid way and not just to increase your damage.

    btw I would love if there were more than just 5 auras, standing the limitation to max 5 active at any time - still I dont see exactly what buffs would be usefull (considering what bard already cover).
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  13. #13
    Plane Walker Gehrgontra's Avatar
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    I'm having a hard time seeing what's so "mind numbing" about archon gameplay other than it's the only spec we have where we can macro together more than three or four abilites and not gimp ourselves. My only point of contention with the soul is that the auras only last 5 minutes, whereas most raid bosses I've done take 7 or 8. Could just be a DPS problem, but I have yet to successfully complete a raid encounter without having to recast those auras, using up 5 GCDs doing nothing to contribute to the kill.

    As for mobile DPS, it has that nifty Burning Purpose aura combined with spamming our debuffs. Mine hit for about 400-450 self buffed (and debuffed, of course) with only one piece of raid-level gear (the Staff of Excess). I agree AoE is entirely lacking, but since it's a Support soul and not an Offensive one I'm ok with that. Unlimited mana is also very nice.

    Maybe that's the "boring" part? Not enough big numbers lighting up the display? Think of it this way: Their big numbers are bigger because of you. Those awesome parses they'll show off to their buddies are thanks to your buffs. That healer was able to save the tank at the last second because you provided it. The tank was able to survive that onslaught because you were there to weaken the foe at the right moment. They were good, you made them great. That's what the Archon is all about, not finding some way to eke out a few extra points of damage for yourself. To me that is what makes the Archon worth playing; the knowledge that without me, their boasts of greatness would not be possible.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser LatsyrcMoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendu View Post
    ...My suggestion is to remove the internal cooldown on Burning Purpose...
    The problem with this, and the reason the cooldown exists, is then Plague Bolt becomes your main nuke(2 procs from 1 cast).

  15. #15
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehrgontra View Post
    I'm having a hard time seeing what's so "mind numbing" about archon gameplay other than it's the only spec we have where we can macro together more than three or four abilites and not gimp ourselves. My only point of contention with the soul is that the auras only last 5 minutes, whereas most raid bosses I've done take 7 or 8. Could just be a DPS problem, but I have yet to successfully complete a raid encounter without having to recast those auras, using up 5 GCDs doing nothing to contribute to the kill.

    As for mobile DPS, it has that nifty Burning Purpose aura combined with spamming our debuffs. Mine hit for about 400-450 self buffed (and debuffed, of course) with only one piece of raid-level gear (the Staff of Excess). I agree AoE is entirely lacking, but since it's a Support soul and not an Offensive one I'm ok with that. Unlimited mana is also very nice.

    Maybe that's the "boring" part? Not enough big numbers lighting up the display? Think of it this way: Their big numbers are bigger because of you. Those awesome parses they'll show off to their buddies are thanks to your buffs. That healer was able to save the tank at the last second because you provided it. The tank was able to survive that onslaught because you were there to weaken the foe at the right moment. They were good, you made them great. That's what the Archon is all about, not finding some way to eke out a few extra points of damage for yourself. To me that is what makes the Archon worth playing; the knowledge that without me, their boasts of greatness would not be possible.
    Ohhh yeah. I love it. Seeing an enemy's bar go down much faster because of my spells is great - it sometimes goes down faster than if I went all DPS, actually.

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