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Thread: Defile vs Soul Purge vs Soul Purge + Defile

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    Rift Disciple Scintilla's Avatar
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    Default Defile vs Soul Purge vs Soul Purge + Defile

    Hi all,

    I have recently started raiding in Rift and have a question:

    I am an experienced WoW raider and I know that sometimes the best spec on a dummy is not the best one in an movement-intense fight.

    So what would you suggest:?

    A) A typical Necrolock spec with ETC and Lich form that uses Soul Purge as filler.

    B) A 38/28 specc that uses Defile and Void bolt. No Soul Purge but ETC instead.

    C) 38/28 specc that alternates between Defile and Soul Purge. However I may find that one too much to maintain, especially when things get hectic.

    Help is appreciated.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Benlisted's Avatar
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    With the charge reductions this patch, you can eaily keep Defile up and SP for quite a few tics if you have max charge, so imo I'd go that route, it's certainly the best for movement intensive fights.

    EtC isn't worth it really unless you go Lich Form at the least (I think), and the 35 Necro build does higher DPS than the 38 Lock but is less mobile.

  3. #3
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    In my latest parses, It's showing SP as a DPS loss vs just VB spam. Was pulling considerably less on Murdantix this week when I was SP'ing as often as possible as opposed to just spamming VB. Just an observation.

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    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol u mad? View Post
    In my latest parses, It's showing SP as a DPS loss vs just VB spam. Was pulling considerably less on Murdantix this week when I was SP'ing as often as possible as opposed to just spamming VB. Just an observation.
    This. I simply cannot get a dps increase out of SP.

    I roll with your option B) because I only run the spec when I need mobility, else I'd be pyroele.

  5. #5
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazzin View Post
    This. I simply cannot get a dps increase out of SP.

    I roll with your option B) because I only run the spec when I need mobility, else I'd be pyroele.
    Yup, for some reason It's not a DPS gain to SP at all in the 38/28 Spec, glad It's not just me who notices it. I thought something was up when my VB's were Critting for over 2k, and my SP at barely 1700 a tick.

    What's your SP at? I'm at about 1650 Raid buffed might be a coefficient scaling thing

    I'd much rather run Pyro/ele or Pyro/Nec too as the burst is too good not to have on burn phases.
    Last edited by lol r u mad; 08-12-2011 at 02:52 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol u mad? View Post
    Yup, for some reason It's not a DPS gain to SP at all in the 38/28 Spec, glad It's not just me who notices it. I thought something was up when my VB's were Critting for over 2k, and my SP at barely 1700 a tick.

    What's your SP at? I'm at about 1650 Raid buffed might be a coefficient scaling thing

    I'd much rather run Pyro/ele or Pyro/Nec too as the burst is too good not to have on burn phases.
    Theoretically SP should be a dps increase. I just can't get it to translate to parses, and given that it requires more work, I've stopped bothering.

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    This honestly makes no sense. Soul Purge has a ridiculously high spell power coefficient compared to other Warlock spells, so it should be a tremendous DPS increase once you hit raid-level stats. I'll see what parses I can come up with this weekend.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    This honestly makes no sense. Soul Purge has a ridiculously high spell power coefficient compared to other Warlock spells, so it should be a tremendous DPS increase once you hit raid-level stats. I'll see what parses I can come up with this weekend.
    Coefficients mean nothing if not normalized.

    SP - 160% / 8seconds = 20% per second.

    VB - 40% / 1.5seconds = 26.67% per second.

    SP benefits from Neddra's Influence, and VB does not. Doing the math, this gives SP a small scaling edge in the end.
    Last edited by Kazzin; 08-12-2011 at 03:49 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    Been playing 38/28 lately and played 6 years as a Shadow Priest. Shadow's main filler if you don't know, was Mind Flay; a 3 second channel that ticked once every second. I bring this up because Mind Flay clipping resulted in a large dps loss.

    Are you sure that during your testing, you are not clipping the Soul Purge to early? I'm still practicing my timings myself but using some fundamentals I knpw from playing Shadow I'm parsing 980-1000 dps with ~800SP.

    Perhaps you are trying to use SP to often? I know I rarely use it simply because I'm under 80 charge or a DoT will expire before I can get enough ticks to be worth it.

    I'm sure you are just as or more experienced with the spec than I, so sorry if I'm speaking of obvious rules for SP usage here. It does seem though that SP shares the above points in common with Mind Flay, where there is a sweet spot where X ticks => Bolt spell. Otherwise bolt.
    Last edited by Ozamet; 08-12-2011 at 04:15 AM.

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    Rift Disciple
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    you need to learn the new rotation if you want to use SP right.

    im around 1200 on the dummie over 15min. as defilerlock.
    and i can keep a full SP charge going every 2nd rotation. (1 rotation is around 18 sec. where you will refresh your dots.)


    with the decrease in charge you should use SP like this, dont use SP if you cant keep it going for a full charge for that will b a DPS loss compared to a pure VB spam.


    im at 1194 SP. and 695 SC. self buffed no powerstones or vials.
    Last edited by Ondesvin; 08-12-2011 at 04:19 AM.

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    Plane Walker Pendu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol u mad? View Post
    Yup, for some reason It's not a DPS gain to SP at all in the 38/28 Spec, glad It's not just me who notices it. I thought something was up when my VB's were Critting for over 2k, and my SP at barely 1700 a tick.

    What's your SP at? I'm at about 1650 Raid buffed might be a coefficient scaling thing

    I'd much rather run Pyro/ele or Pyro/Nec too as the burst is too good not to have on burn phases.
    If you use 2k VB crits vs 1.7k SP ticks (I've gotten over 2k crits in raids, (1200 unbuffed SP with Lich Form build)) you gotta check how much damage per cast time you get off

    2k VB takes 1.5 sec, thats 1.5 tick of SP, 1.7 x 1.5 = 2.5 k for the same time spent casting. So if ur SP crits for 1.7k, you'd need 2.5k VB crits to beat it. There is some added damage from VB to Lifeleech refreshes, but this is extremely hard to calculate. at best I think it's 25% extra?
    Last edited by Pendu; 08-12-2011 at 05:15 AM.
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  12. #12
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendu View Post
    If you use 2k VB crits vs 1.7k SP ticks (I've gotten over 2k crits in raids, (1200 unbuffed SP with Lich Form build)) you gotta check how much damage per cast time you get off

    2k VB takes 1.5 sec, thats 1.5 tick of SP, 1.7 x 1.5 = 2.5 k for the same time spent casting. So if ur SP crits for 1.7k, you'd need 2.5k VB crits to beat it. There is some added damage from VB to Lifeleech refreshes, but this is extremely hard to calculate. at best I think it's 25% extra?
    You can't use 1.5 ticks as a measurement because 0.5 isnt any damage.

    Regardless, SP usage will be much different and easier(?) as a Lichlock than a Defiler, yeah? I think that would be a reasonable assumption.


    Also, if vb=2k per 1.5 sec and sp=1.7k per 1 sec (or even close) than we can...

    VB over 3 secs = 3k (2vb)

    SP over 3 secs = 5.1k (3ticks)
    SP over 2 secs = 3.4k (2ticks)

    So if you can get two ticks of SP than SP otherwise VB. Although I dont think SP ticks every second. But if you can 3 ticks SP than do it otherwise VB.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Pendu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozamet View Post
    You can't use 1.5 ticks as a measurement because 0.5 isnt any damage.

    Regardless, SP usage will be much different and easier(?) as a Lichlock than a Defiler, yeah? I think that would be a reasonable assumption.


    Also, if vb=2k per 1.5 sec and sp=1.7k per 1 sec (or even close) than we can...

    VB over 3 secs = 3k (2vb) <<< should be 4k

    SP over 3 secs = 5.1k (3ticks)
    SP over 2 secs = 3.4k (2ticks)

    So if you can get two ticks of SP than SP otherwise VB. Although I dont think SP ticks every second. But if you can 3 ticks SP than do it otherwise VB.
    ur math is slightly off there, but I just used 1,5 because it's the same as a VB.

    for SP you use whole seconds ofc. like 2 ticks sp is far greater than 1 vb, but 3 ticks is closer to 2 VB's

    I personally prefer the Lich Form spec because it plays a lot more smooth and Soul Purge is just kickass
    it's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society

  14. #14
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Ozamet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendu View Post
    ur math is slightly off there, but I just used 1,5 because it's the same as a VB.

    for SP you use whole seconds ofc. like ticks sp is far greater than 1 vb, but 3 ticks is closer to 2 VB's

    I personally prefer the Lich Form spec because it plays a lot more smooth and Soul Purge is just kickass
    Yeah, silly thing. Posting from my phone at the beach.

    So to correct my prev post, thosr values mean SP if you can complete 3 or more ticks. Otherwise VB.

  15. #15
    Telaran Zhurial's Avatar
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    So the average consensus is that 38/28 is the better option? Using defile with voidbolt spam until you have enough charge to do 3+ ticks of soul purge? In this build, would ETC be worth putting a point in, or would it be better to max out blood spikes damage?

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