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Thread: Spotter's Order and Mages in 1.4

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    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Default Spotter's Order and Mages in 1.4

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    Spotter’s Order is a 2 point root ability in the Warrior’s Warlord soul. Pre 1.4 it adds a set amount of damage (47 for hit, 27 for DoT) to each attack, from player and pet, and each DoT/Bleed. This caused specs like Zoomancer, which hits the target very often, to have an advantage over Pyro/Ele. Or duel wielding melee verse mages or 2-handed melee.
    It is getting a big overhaul in 1.4:
    It now has its own line in the combat log, and therefore will show up in combat parsers like ACT. It will also show up in your HUD if you setup your HUD to show spell names/icons.

    But more importantly it has a big mechanic change in that it can only proc once every 3 seconds per player, and can no longer proc off pets. DoTs/Bleeds and direct hits now proc it for the same amount of damage. The timer starts when the damage hits the target, not when a spell or ability begins to cast. For the most part this change will not effect our specs or rotations and we should see a damage buff from it, while melee classes should see a slight nerf.
    That being said there may be some issues:
    Take for example Void Bolt and Fireball, if both are talented VB hits the target every 1.5 seconds while Fireball hits every 2 seconds. If Spotter’s can proc every 3 seconds then spamming VB will cause Spotter’s to proc every time right on the 3 second mark, or every other VB. However, Fireball will only proc Spotter’s every 4 seconds. In a one minute parse the Void Bolt spam will proc Spotter’s 20 times while Fireball will only proc it 15 times. Since each Spotter’s does up to 530 damage (depending on the target’s armor) this can be a severe DPS loss over time.
    This means an optimized spec will need to fine a way to hit the target every 3rd second. In the case of a Pyro/Ele spec your Fireball has a 20% chance to leave a DoT, which does proc Spotter’s. The DoT tics every 1.5 seconds, starting 1.5 seconds after it is applied, so:

    0 Fireball lands, procs Spotter’s, procs DoT
    1.5 Dot ticks
    3 Dot ticks, procs Spotter’s
    4 Fireball lands
    4.5 Dot ticks
    6 Fireball lands, procs Spotter’s, DoT ticks.

    And it continues from there, the point being that as long as you have the Fireball DoT on the target you are getting the maximum benefit from Spotter’s which is what we want.
    However, the DoT is not up at all times which means we may need to maintain Ignite on the target. For a perfectly optimized rotation I am assuming we will find that you should apply and maintain Ignite when the Fireball DoT is not on the target. You could probably simplify and maintain Ignite at all times without a noticeable loss in DPS.
    Keep in mind raid buffs, specifically casting speed buffs from Archon, will change all my numbers but it is safe to conclude that maintaining some form of a DoT will be the best way to insure maximum Spotter’s Order damage.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    In raid conditions, fireball will be a 1.8s cast. Which might be fast enough to skip ignite.

    Also, heatwave. Do we really want to waste any of that on ignite?
    Last edited by Flaviusx; 07-25-2011 at 02:17 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaviusx View Post
    In raid conditions, fireball will be a 1.8s cast. Which might be fast enough to skip ignite.

    Also, heatwave. Do we really want to waste any of that on ignite?
    I put up Ignite right before using Intensify Elements.. I don't actually know if it is a benefit but the additional crit + the additional pet damage seems like it should be.. But casting ignite during Heatwave is a bad idea.

    Either way a 1.8 second cast still causes Spotter's to only proc every 3.6 seconds which adds up fast in a 8 minute encounter. (8 Minutes was the enrage timer on a number of encounters in GSB and RoS)

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    Any thoughts on Archon?

    - Initially their DPS will go up significantly.

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    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    I think what I would try to do here is monitor the fireball dot on the target and if at all possible avoid casting ignite, but I suppose if you go on a long dry spell (which is entirely possible, they really need to up the proc rate on the fireball dot) then you'll have no choice.

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    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myso View Post
    Any thoughts on Archon?

    - Initially their DPS will go up significantly.
    Possibly need to keep Searing Vitality up while Leeching Flames is not up. I haven't tested it though, and since only some of the spells in the rotation are 2 seconds it will not be as clear of an advantage. If it winds up being an advantage to keep Searing Vitality up you will need to make sure all the cast buffs (Volcanic Bomb, Surging Flare, and Earthen Barrage) are up, you don't want to lose out on any up time from them.

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    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaviusx View Post
    I think what I would try to do here is monitor the fireball dot on the target and if at all possible avoid casting ignite, but I suppose if you go on a long dry spell (which is entirely possible, they really need to up the proc rate on the fireball dot) then you'll have no choice.
    I am thinking along the same lines. Ignite is not a terrible spell, but it is a DPS loss to cast it and losing a chance to stack or refresh the Fireball DoT is costly.

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    Telaran
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    Im at work staring at my abilities thinking if i need to change/what i need to change to max out aoe healing in my 31/35 and 30/36 chloro lock and chloro ele specs.

    brain fried right now tho, ill crunch some numbers and be back tommorow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedot View Post
    Possibly need to keep Searing Vitality up while Leeching Flames is not up. I haven't tested it though, and since only some of the spells in the rotation are 2 seconds it will not be as clear of an advantage. If it winds up being an advantage to keep Searing Vitality up you will need to make sure all the cast buffs (Volcanic Bomb, Surging Flare, and Earthen Barrage) are up, you don't want to lose out on any up time from them.
    As far as archons go, I doubt it. There's enough dots and spell time variations as it stands.

    Regarding pyros... I refuse to cast ignite > The pyro crystals should help eliminate this anyway.

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    Sword of Telara Ramea's Avatar
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    "The timer starts when the damage hits the target"

    Won't this be our next problem since spells have different "fly times"?

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    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    It's probably best that you go for the longer cast time spells, to make sure it's proccing every-other-cast. If fate and lag and travel time and distance from the target converge, and your first and third spells land within 2.99 seconds of each other (See also: Cloudburst + Lightning Strike), you'll have to wait for your next spell to land at the 4.5 second mark, resulting in an even uglier DPS loss. Since we don't have a melee DPS rotation that mixes in constant off GCDs, autoattacks and bleeds, the best option to squeeze every last bit of DPS out of Spotter's Order is to keep a few rotating DoTs on the target. I have a feeling ACT will be showing that Necrolocks are getting more Spotter's Order damage than Pyro/Elems. It won't be significant, but it may be something to consider for minmaxers.

    Lesse if I can mathifize this post:
    A theoretically perfect Spotter's Order: 177 DPS
    Spotter's Order with poorly timed Fire Bolts, Countdowns, and ticks of Combust messing around in there while in a raid setting: 152ish DPS
    Spotter's Order exclusively via 1.8 second casts: 147 DPS
    Spotter's order with alternating 3-second and 4.5 second procs (average: 3.75 secs) because your computer is being stupid: 141 DPS
    Spotter's every 4 seconds: 132.5
    Spotter's Order while doing drunk T1s on your Chloro and simultaneously having an argument with your ex via Skype on a second monitor: 53 DPS

    So, it's a window of 40 DPS to play with. Not worth changing into a less-comfortable spec over, but certainly a tie-breaker if such a thing existed.
    Last edited by Kolfinna; 07-25-2011 at 03:14 PM.

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    Telaran
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    i could see warlock getting messed up if you cast like a bolt, another bolt, then a dot,

    the first bolt has a fly time to the target, hits, sets off the timer, in which you have already begun your second bolt, so the dot will be cast just under 3 seconds after the bolt hits...


    my thought on this is for alot of specs it will be sort of a "dont sweat it, just do your rotation and let it work itself out" kind of approach, but for some stuff, ie maybe the pyro ele, it will be a big enough factor to change rotations.. missing out on 1 sec does seem like alot.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer bluedot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramea View Post
    "The timer starts when the damage hits the target"

    Won't this be our next problem since spells have different "fly times"?
    It can cause us to lose some dps:

    0 Flame Bolt, procs Spotter's
    1.5 Fireball begins to cast
    3 Spotters is read
    3.3 Raid buffed Fireball leaves mage
    3.5 Non raid buffed Fireball leaves mage

    Spotter's could be ready for up to a second without proccing, over time it will be a measurable amount of lost DPS.

    I just haven't figured out a way to fix it, other then counting on a DoT to proc Spotter's.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakan View Post
    "dont sweat it, just do your rotation and let it work itself out"
    This is my thought on the matter. If it turns up that parses are showing a significant discrepancy in SO benefits by build, then I'll worry about it.
    Last edited by Kazzin; 07-25-2011 at 03:19 PM.

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    for the numbers i still have from coeff testing (1000sp)(unskilled so the gap will get slightly bigger)
    fireball is at 308 dps (1,8 secs casttime)
    ignite is at 306,6 dps

    while fireball crits more often and can leave a dot and ignite increases the elementals crit

    getting a proc every 3,6 secs instead of every 3 is a 30 dps loss if u assume full dmg of spotters
    at 425 dmg (dmg it deals to the boss dummy without debuffs) it is a 20 dps loss

    it is much better than before but i dont like the 3 seconds cd, now we have to tune our specs around getting a cast to the enemy every 3 seconds
    Last edited by Rebellchen; 07-25-2011 at 03:25 PM.

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