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Thread: Doing the dev's job (class change suggestions).

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Doing the dev's job (class change suggestions).

    Okay, seeing as the Devs are slacking off making mages viable, lets come up with some suggestions so the mage team can resume player officer laser tag and okaying nerfs.

    First of all, a lot of mages seem to love pyro. Why? It's fun, it feels satisfying and it makes sense that it's powerful. Except it isn't. Stormcaller is pretty cool but it's super fiddly so pyro seems like a good alternative spec to start with as it wouldn't need a total overhaul to work. The "one rule for pve one for pvp" gives us a lot more ability to make fixes for one or other situation. All of these ideas are either dissapointments from my own experience or things other people have said. These observations are based off my own personal experience, forum chatter and the tendency for for every new mage I know to try speccing pyro first and then being resistant to trying anything else because it's fun even though it can't quite deliver.

    Pyro/ele is the standard spec used by most pyros. Quickly I'll stop and observe it's mostly about passive buffs and the pet, elemental also has some nice low tree pvp buffs and gives specs like dominator some burst and survivability so buffing elemental could boost pvp and pve, it'd also boost stormcaller. Because pvp and pve specs emphasise different parts of the tree we can buff different parts for different effects. Buffing the pet would buff pve specs, while buffing the low talents might buff pvp. Buffing ignite would affect both pyro and pvp specs as it does reasonable damage for an instant and scales to pyro talents, however it's low damage in pve makes it still unworthy of casting and in pvp I've yet to see it do more than add a little pressure to anyone.

    Meanwhile in pyro.

    Wildfire/flamebolt: aside from the low damage I've noted that instant cinder burst doesn't proc off flame bolt (I suspect it's because it's a non cast). The talent wildfire is actually a DPS loss as it means you can't macro flame bolt effectively and casting it aside from the fire damage buff is a DPS loss, as well as that, cinder burst just won't proc if you use wildfire.

    Combustion: I've never noticed this stack above 2. It does, but it's very rare, this is a talent which rarely realises it's own power. That alone isn't a huge issue but it's a niggle and one I'd fix while boosting pyro DPS.

    Withering flames: Nice DPS but doesn't scale to crit and doesn't scale to heat wave.

    Ground of Power: The idea of becoming a turret for extra damage sounds great but in reality we have a spec balanced around standing in a tiny little circle. In pvp this tradeoff might be a cool decision process but in pve, it basically means we have to give up damage and then land in a rather tiny circle, losing DPS not just from not being able to hard cast on the move but also losing further damage, and then on trying to get back into this little full stop we lose more DPS, or lose DPS. Ugh. Horrible.

    Okay, so starting with pve, I'd make a few changes to buff pyro and give it the unrivalled destruction it needs.

    First: Ground of power. If it's down you gain a buff to damage, however it only applies to players if you're stood in it. Simple. You already have one "it's down" and one "you're in it" buff so just put the 20% pve damage boost on the first and talents exist to boost player only damage or whatever. Minimal changing required really.

    Second: Make withering flames crit. This will boost DPS and scaling. Again, not a huge pvp buff.

    Third: Either remove wildfire or re work it. It's a stupid talent. You could buff flame bolt and make it a DPS gain, also make it proc instant cinder bursts.

    Fourth: Buff ignite so it's a DPS gain, maybe 50% more damage. This would buff mage pvp slightly but only slightly. It'd buff pet DPS a fair amount and probably buff elemental a lot.

    Fifth: Make combustion's proc chance higher. That way we'll see three stacks more often. It's not a big pvp buff as it isn't a burst buff but sustained DPS will have increased and the talent will be more satisfying.

    Sixth: This lot should constitute a fairly hefty DPS buff, but if all else fails and pyro still isn't doing enough buff improved flame bolt x%.

    Result: Pyro becomes everyone's favourate mage spec. It already has a nice balance between being "John Madden" fiddly and playable and now does good DPS, feels good. It has a mix of procs to watch and buffs to keep up but no fiendish ramp up, fun cooldowns, and a decent selection of spells, which can partially be macrod but it can't be reduced to 2 buttons.

    Of course now ignite does more damage than neural prod, so we'll have to fiddle with pvp.

    Pvp: Dominator lacks any straight up nuke. Fight an enemy who knows how to counter your debuffs and you'll have taken them to 50% before they can 3 global you again. A pyro who plays well will still always loose to a good player. And if your cooldowns aren't up or whatever you're screwed. Lets just say the dominator transferances you. Storm shackles you and stands there. You haven't taken much damage yet so he nukes for 7 seconds. He'll do 1500 damage if he crits every time. You'll do about this auto attacking him if you get out the shackle, even with 0 energy. If he's not on full health you can land a hit or two and kill him while "locked down" if he's not r6+. All viable mage pvp specs are support and lack any ability to fight back while using abilities which allow them to survive to cast more than 1 spell. Mages can be lethal if ignored but if focused they are fodder below r6. And even then I've seen a mage survive 4 people attacking one, but kill anyone? LOL.

    With my above changes ignite now out damages neural prod. Dominators who wanted ground aoe and some damage dealing and reduction will have gone elemental. Chloros won't have this and chlorodoms will suffer a bit from almost no damage when moving. Given the massive amount of DR mages already face on their CC, damage buffing is the way to go.

    I would switch the emphasis of mages a little. While it's nice to be able to **** with people, it's harder to balance than the other 3 classes abilities to win straight up fights. Perhaps buffing damage a little makes nerfing other abilities a bit less brutal. Dominators don't win straight up fights, they appear in a group fight and severaly weaken half the enemy so the rest of your team has it easier. or they use a huge pile of cooldowns to even the odds. If the enemy survive this set with their own cooldowns or get a heal, or another enemy arrives right after, they die. Meanwhile if the enemy pulled through somehow, they'd be able to still deal a lot of damage given a few seconds of power/energy regen.

    First up buff neural prod. If you want to avoid it becoming a cheap nuke, put a damage buff for it in a mid tree dom talent. Or just buff it. If you double it's damage it'll hit around 400 and crit around 600. You're still not going to destroy people in 10 seconds with it. But it makes 2 neural prods more noticable than 3 seconds of DoT ticks. It'd allow mages to do a lot more damage, meaning that with your DPS lowered by our debuffs, we might still actually out damage you. It would make total shutdown less necessary for dominators to win fights. You could go further and make it do more damage for deep doms or if other abilities have been used or if they haven't. Note doing 400 damage on one global cooldown is still extremely weak. You could buff it more but though it is a spammable instant so you can't really buff it much more. If you've already buffed ignite though, the damage doms can do will now be a lot higher which means they can actually win a fight against someone targetting them now.

    All that said, I do really enjoy the "****ery" playstyle, I just dislike that in order to stand a chance 1 on 1 against an enemy who is actually trying to kill me I have to be OP in other areas, or a unable to fight 1 on 1 so I'm balanced 5 on 5. I like being able to swing battles with a few well placed debuffs, or debuff an enemy like a flag carrier who is focused on running away so that by the time they think to fight back they're already too gimped, but I realise that some of this is a bit too strong. However we need it to be able to fight, and if our group fight abilities take a hit maybe our ability to survive one on one or just hurt things should be buffed? I feel that each class has a niche, mages might just be a bit further into ours than anyone elses, lacking the ability to just cosh things without being squishy and immobile.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

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