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Thread: Summary of Mage QQ

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Summary of Mage QQ

    First, a question, what in God's name does QQ mean? are those teary eyes?? I'm out of the loop on this.

    Now, I know what it means; people have be whining about nerfs and buffs enough for me to get it from context. It seems there is an all out clash between classes with a barrage of unsupported claims, wild and not so wild statements, being hurled over the firewalls at each other. I'd really like to get a good thread that can really objectively look at the Mage in context of the other classes and really see if there is balance. This of course would need to have only supported statements. So anyone whining about burst DPS and getting owned in unfair ways.. we'll be expecting screen caps and/or parses where applicable, seriously, don't spout off some ******** without proof.


    With that being said, first we need to discuss the viable roles that each class can potential fill. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the potential roles by class:

    Cleric - DPS, Tank, Heals
    Rogue - DPS, Tank, Support
    Warrior - DPS, Tank
    Mage - DPS, Support, Heals (?)

    From my understanding and generally reading the boards clerics are quite happy with the current state of all of their roles.
    https://community.resultgaming.com/i...s-master-list/

    The same seems to go for the rouges, maybe some debate over bard buffs.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ey-last-longer

    The warriors have their two roles on the lock down with kutsuu's build
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...fting.-Step-in...
    Ciderhelm and Kruunch both with great tank builds (I'ma link Kruunch cuz that's my Tank's mitigation build and it friggen rocks)
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...nch+mitigation

    According to the forums. mages are QQ about DPS and heals (?) but not support. So the mage faction are happy with Archon's ability to support. I wish I could really see my affectiveness as a support, but unfortunately ACT doesn't let me parse in a way I can see how much my debuffs and buffs mitigate damage, increased heals and increased dps and crit %. However, no one has complained to this day about Archon not being effective so I'm gonna go ahead and without any sort of data, say Archon is OK.


    At this point in time I think the Warrior has the shaft on viable roles. Warriors need some sort of viable support or heals role. All classes should have access to 3 of the roles IMO.

    Let's discuss DPS. All classes can DPS and is the focus of most QQ. Let's get some numbers up on this board, ST DPS:

    Cleric DPS - 800+
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...(with-template)
    http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1583/xarek.jpg
    Get to wear chain and heal themselves too.
    one button macro for rotation

    Rogue DPS - 1990
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...nus-with-parse)
    http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...o/hokowins.jpg
    wear leather
    one button macro for rotation

    Warrior DPS - 2000+
    http://forums.riftgame.com/forumdisp...ge2&order=desc
    http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...onoso/kuts.jpg
    wear plate
    3 macro rotation: 1 button main, 1 button finisher, 1 button AoE.

    Mage DPS - 1600+
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ight=zoomancer
    http://bluedots.org/parses/rosgsb/rosgsb.html (on plut)
    wear cloth and maybe some tiny healing based off pet dps.
    1 macro and an 8 spell rotation (repeating some until the others are off CD, so 8 spells but not just spamming htem in a row, and this is by far one of the easier rotations.. try the SC/ele rotation.. good lord, toggling on and off charge consumers in between the right spells to get the buffs that actually get the DPS competative)

    Cleric is the only DPS not on Plut so non-raid buffed probably. However, extremely low relative to other DPS classes.

    For PvE, I would say that Mages need to be buffed in the single target DPS. Some would argue that they have the best AoE DPS, and I would agree, but then go on to say they shouldn't have both. My question is, why not? Mages should have builds that can provide either amazing AoE or ST but just not at the same time. Some might also argue that Mages have "Utility" powers.. that's true, but maybe I don't want to play a "Controller", I would rather play something that F*CKS SH*T UP. Looking at the armor, it is apparent that Mages are the least survivable, owing to low endurance (because we can't waste time with enduranc when we need that Int/Wis to stay competative) and only cloth armor. Which I think that true balance doesn't come from equal DPS, but from all things considered. Considering Mages will die fast and easy we should be pumping out extra damage that make that trade worth while. I suggest Mages DPS > Rogue DPS > Warrior DPS > Cleric DPS but we see almost the exact opposite trend, -Cleric (sorry guys). What does the player base feel about that?

    Let's talk a second about PvP. The legendary Dom build:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ight=dominator
    This one seems to be pissing off the rogues/warriors a great deal. I like that. This build has different strats based onw hat your fighting and has I think 8 macros. The problem with this build is it's DPS is only good from the debuff spells that the opponants ignore.

    Now let's talk about the Warrior PvP. Two seconds, game over. 4800+ damage in 2 seconds.
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/z...1-03-53-37.jpg
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/z...facerolled.png
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...t=warrior+shot

    Can't comment on Rogue/Cleric PVP. You guys can fill that in I'm sure. Remember (no bs claims without support).

    I think either that warrior needs a nerf or mages need a burst DPS increase that can shell out that much damage in two seconds. Mind you, that happened while the mage was stunned from the initial attack I believe. Kinda sucks to go from full to 0 without being able to do jack about it.

    On Heals? I don't think anyone will dispute Cleric as king of heals. I know when I tank, I've never had a problem with clerics. Only a chloro once was unable to keep up healing me but he might have specced bad.. but since 1.3 he's the only chloromancer I had. I've not specced a chloro either so I have no personal parses of chloro MT healing. I've read a very interesting thread discussing this:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ur-bars)/page5
    It seems that Chloro's can MT heal just fine and is in line with cleric heals.

    In conclusion, I think that Mages need a huge ST DPS increase and rightfully should be doing more DPS than rogues and warriors, but as it stands mages are consistantly doing less ST DPS. I think we need a better balance in Burst DPS when compared to warriors (Can rogues pull burst damage like this?) if so maybe buff mages, if not nerf the warriors burst, and warriors need a 3rd viable role.

    QQ away (I hope those are teary eyes) and flame me up. Just no BS without a parse or a link to a thread with such information.
    Last edited by CuzzChemist; 07-20-2011 at 03:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Sez
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    Full of generalizations and exaggerations... Like always
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Full of generalizations and exaggerations... Like always
    how so? Those are not exaggerations but actualities. All my claims made with parses and screen caps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Full of generalizations and exaggerations... Like always
    I concur.
    :shudders:

  5. #5
    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    how so? Those are not exaggerations but actualities. All my claims made with parses and screen caps.
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    According to the forums...

    You are basing balance around the forums. That alone should tell you you're wrong.


    Your numbers are from ONE example of ONE hit. Do warriors need to be tuned down or adjusted? Maybe, but that doesn't mean Mages should get buffed.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I concur.
    :shudders:
    Where's the proof of these exaggerations? Can I get a parse of mages DPS in the 2000s or overwhelming support that those 2000 parses of the rouge and warrior being falsified? Are they exaggerations or is that the way it is? These are generalizations and are to be handling the classes and roles of a very general player base. You're right. generally, the mage will do less DPS than a rogue and a warrior. Yesterday, I out DPSed a rogue with my 35 mage he was also 35. I don't think we should really give a crap about it though, why? Because that is called an anecdote and this case specific situation where the rogue was obviously a bad player doesn't matter to the general player base.

    Where's your parses that make this an exaggeration Sez?

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    You are basing balance around the forums. That alone should tell you you're wrong.


    Your numbers are from ONE example of ONE hit. Do warriors need to be tuned down or adjusted? Maybe, but that doesn't mean Mages should get buffed.
    Taken out of context, thanks.
    "According to the forums. mages are QQ about DPS and heals (?) but not support"

    Of course I'll go to the forums to see if other mages are upset.. nothing wrong with my statement there.
    I can do that too:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Mages should get buffed.
    Sweet thanks!

  8. #8
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    Where's the proof of these exaggerations? Can I get a parse of mages DPS in the 2000s or overwhelming support that those 2000 parses of the rouge and warrior being falsified? Are they exaggerations or is that the way it is? These are generalizations and are to be handling the classes and roles of a very general player base. You're right. generally, the mage will do less DPS than a rogue and a warrior. Yesterday, I out DPSed a rogue with my 35 mage he was also 35. I don't think we should really give a crap about it though, why? Because that is called an anecdote and this case specific situation where the rogue was obviously a bad player doesn't matter to the general player base.

    Where's your parses that make this an exaggeration Sez?
    stop comparing ranged and melee please.
    "I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won."

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
    stop comparing ranged and melee please.
    no.
    stop comparing your pointy metal object to my bolts of lightning.

  10. #10
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    Lol'd at the poor clerics doing 600dps compared to mage 1600.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    Where's the proof of these exaggerations? Can I get a parse of mages DPS in the 2000s or overwhelming support that those 2000 parses of the rouge and warrior being falsified? Are they exaggerations or is that the way it is? These are generalizations and are to be handling the classes and roles of a very general player base. You're right. generally, the mage will do less DPS than a rogue and a warrior. Yesterday, I out DPSed a rogue with my 35 mage he was also 35. I don't think we should really give a crap about it though, why? Because that is called an anecdote and this case specific situation where the rogue was obviously a bad player doesn't matter to the general player base.

    Where's your parses that make this an exaggeration Sez?
    hurf durf lets play ranged classes and expect to keep up with melee on the most melee friendly fight since the boss practice dummy.

    Ranged clerics can't do it, ranged rogues cant do it, mages can't do it. Get that **** outta here bro

    (Gear)

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    Where's the proof of these exaggerations? Can I get a parse of mages DPS in the 2000s or overwhelming support that those 2000 parses of the rouge and warrior being falsified? Are they exaggerations or is that the way it is?
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    rouge
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    rouge
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    rouge
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    rouge
    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    rouge

    Argument immediately made invalid.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker Feywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    First, a question, what in God's name does QQ mean? are those teary eyes?? I'm out of the loop on this.
    Back in the day, in Warcraft 2, you could press alt+q+q to immediately quit the game. So, if you were playing on battlenet and some dude sucked, you could say 'qq' and it would effectively mean 'you suck - you should leave' - kinda just like 'get the f out'.

    Nowadays, most people think it's a set of crying eyes, so it's come to mean 'to whine or cry about'.

    Just cuz I saw that part. I'm a complete newb at Rift, so that's about all I can contribute :P
    Last edited by Feywolf; 07-20-2011 at 07:58 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuzzChemist View Post
    First, a question, what in God's name does QQ mean? are those teary eyes?? I'm out of the loop on this.

    Now, I know what it means;
    I play a warrior want to put that out there before I reply to this.

    I don't PvP, so I don't give a damn who shot JR. But I blame Valor in any case.

    Anyone who PvE's and runs a parser knows mages need a buff.

    End of story.

  15. #15
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    we have druid clerics in our guild do 1600-1700+

    cabalist getting boosted in 1.4 too
    Killianx<Addiction> - Gnarlwood
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